kaberett: photograph of the Moon taken from the northern hemisphere by GH Revera (moon)
[personal profile] kaberett
SOME TERMINOLOGY
  • exegesis: critical explanation or interpretation of a (particularly, religious) text (from "to lead out")
  • extelligence: knowledge-outside-one's-head; the cultural capital available to us in the form of media; things we don't have to know or learn anew every damn time because they're available externally
  • lares & penates: Roman (guardian) deities of house & family, of home & hearth, worshipped at household shrines
  • psychosocial: relating to psychological development in and interaction with a social environment
  • theology: the study of the nature of religious ideas

The part where I wryly tell anecdotes so you can gauge your interest in reading several thousand words on the topic
I've been talking intermittently over the last little while about shit like theology as repository of psychosocial extelligence (e.g.). Thursday lunchtime I realised with some dismay that I needed a purification ritual and I needed one fast and all of this is stuff I'm cobbling together as I go along, but I ended up with: sorting out my hair; showering even though it was hard; scrubbing my face and hands with some of the nice salt we keep in; moisturising with the E45 that I stuck a couple of bay leaves in lo these many years ago; eating half a teaspoon of honey from a friend's parents' hives; and then I spent the journey over to the tattoo shop meditating, and now I have symbology etched on me, and it is good -- but I have also realised that I've been doing most of my talking about this stuff via chatting with people one-on-one and I might perhaps benefit from going into a bit more detail, a little more formally.

The disclaimer
This is all me. Descriptors apply to me only; phrasings are chosen to indicate my state of mind with respect to my own status rather than as a general statement on How Religion or What I Think Of Religion More Generally. In the absence of direct and unambiguous statements that something is inherently unsalvageably flawed (e.g. literalist unitary interpretations of Biblical texts) I'm not actually disagreeing with you: you do you, we're cool. In particular, I don't actually care whether There Exists (for some value of "exists") A Deity Or Deities (for some value of "deity" or "deities"); it's not relevant to me and it's not something I'm particularly interested in.

Background
I'm going to start out by summarising my background and context so it's all in one place. It goes a bit like this:
  1. I was brought up Roman Catholic, and then at around the same time I realised (i) that I couldn't reconcile the teachings of the Vatican with my ethics and (ii) that I was queer. Over the course of several years I wretchedly came to the conclusion that I couldn't in good conscience be a member of the Catholic Church but I couldn't do anything else, and it was heartrending and awful and I ended up leaving the Church well before I lost my faith.
  2. I am Jewish. In that my father's Jewish, it is completely obvious to all concerned that I bear his genetic material, but nobody up that line of the family's been observant since at least my great-grandma. Separate from the question of ethnicity, I also spent a chunk of time in my late teens paying some attention to various bits of online Jewish community (much less vile than the Christians I found, by and large!) and to bits and pieces of the Cambridge community. The combination of the two introduced me to the concept of observant atheist Jews: people who recognise the value of the community and ritual and teachings without actually feeling any particular need to engage with the metaphysical/spiritual stuff. I summarise crudely, but this is not an uncommon thing and as (for want of better terminology) lateral cultural heritage has had a fair bit of influence on me one way or another.
  3. In Yuletide 2013 I wrote dystopian spacepunk future Greek mythology fic, and as concept and symbology Hecate grabbed me and isn't showing any signs of leaving yet.
  4. Late 2014 I accidentally developed a coherent theology around the sourdough culture I'd managed to get going and grumpily started referring to the sodding thing in terms of lares & penates.

To summarise the summary: I was a perfectly content atheist ex-Catholic (of the "existence of god/s is irrelevant to me" variety -- I had long since decided that any god unhappy with me applying my code of ethics as best I could wasn't one that deserved worship, and reading a pile of books by Karen Armstrong in my late teens finally got rid of some of the guilt over that). I now appear to be an atheist ex-Catholic with increasingly irritatedly hippy pagan bullshit leanings.

Getting here from there
November 2010: Grossmutti died. November 2011: Harry and Keris died. All of a sudden I had a very definite use for All Souls', not least because it was one of the things Mama did; one of the things I was capable of thinking in the immediate aftermath of my mum telling me she had died - along with a whole bunch of how to sort out the logistics of dropping out of a concert of the orchestra I chaired on five days' notice - was that I'd been craving her Seelkuchen and I was never going to get to eat them again, and then my mother and Problematic Fave Aunt and I got down to the mouldering ancestral pile as the advance guard and there was a bag of them in the front fridge over from All Souls' and I cried a lot. And then I realised that going to Mass on All Souls' was a thing I wanted to do, as ritual and tradition, as comfort and memorial, as a thing I could take out of the context of a God who had forsaken me and turn into a private tribute and offering of my own, on my own terms.

It was about here, at least in narrative terms, that I realised that the way I feel after a good counselling session has an awful lot in common with the way I feel after Mass, at least with a sermon that works for me rather than annoys me. Which is how I ended up at the realisation that confession + Mass serves much the same function as counselling: reflection on the self, on what one has done or failed to do, on one's actions and aims and ideals, and how to better achieve them. (It is probably worth noting that as a mid-teens Alex for all Heinlein's many faults and there are many I imprinted quite hard on the concept in Stranger in a Strange Land of I am god, you are god, we are god, collectively and separately, not least because of its echoes of made in God's image.)

Now add to that: that I started working with mindfulness-based cognitive therapy in my fourth year of undergrad take 2, and consequently to think about the value of focuses for meditation; the context of my awareness of observant atheist Judaism; and reading a pile of Karen Armstrong and history-of-theology more generally. Outcome: moving away from the internet-evangelicals and college-Christian-Union insistence that the Bible is the literal Word of God with One True Interpretation, and towards (and this in part through discussion with my mum as well, in fact, but also memories of [personal profile] jedusaur's community college class on the Bible as literature) interpreting it (and all religious documents) as inherently living texts, which (like classical - in the loose rather than strict sense - music) have been written in one context and read in another, with any exegesis being of necessity a collaboration across temporal and spatial distances. Perfection may be changeless, but nothing changeless is alive; and in this as in all else I'm not terribly keen on performing actions unless I know why.

Food laws are obvious: by and large it comes down to "eat this and die, so just don't". Menstrual taboos turn out to optimise for sex resulting in conception. You pass this shit on via oral tradition or write it down or whatever and you make it holy because what holy means here, really, is important: kids, we learned this the hard way, so remember it so you don't have to.

It took me an embarrassingly long time to realise that pretty much the same thing is true of the psychosocial side of things: that, yes, humans being fundamentally social creatures benefit from community and ritual and ways to indicate and reciprocate belonging, but that in addition to this religious texts can be how we as a species have enshrined what we've learned about how brains work, how people work, in a desperate attempt to build up sufficient extelligence on the topic that we don't, every one of us in every generation, have to learn it all the hard way again.

Here is where I've talked about some of this before, under access lock, in dribs and drabs: relevant are the phrases count your blessings and everything happens for a reason and others of that ilk. Because it turns out that I do count my blessings, and it does help; and, yes, everything happens for a reason. They're phrases worn to rags and tatters, that have been twisted out of true into condescension and resignation, but nonetheless they contain truth; nonetheless, there were reasons I went to Mass; nonetheless, there is something profound and important in the concept of being loved unconditionally, yes, even with your flaws.

Thus arises the deal with myself where I've got to go to at least one of Mass or therapy at least once a fortnight: I need the dedicated time and the dedicated space, or at least I do a lot better when I have it, and if I've got to go to one I'm more likely to actually schedule and make it to therapy because it will annoy me less.

That's the fortnightly ritual. I've made myself others, cobbled together out of collective extelligence about how to handle life events, taught myself other triggers to fire off moments of reflection. Annually, as discussed, there's All Souls' and my three weeks of formal mourning that follow it; there's the tries-to-be-daily pause before my altar on the way out, wherein I say I will try to make good choices, and similarly feeding the sourdough starter (I give unto it libations; it gives unto us the bread of life); and the occasional, the lighting candles or small fires, from Catholicism and from paganism and from human trust in fire. I've found and created and learned symbols and symbologies and focuses: Hecate grabbed me so hard in her aspects as triplicate, as of crossroads and of choices, with their connotations of balance and movement.

Increasingly I think in terms of Terry Pratchett's Small Gods: symbols acquire power through their relevance, through how they (metaphorically) speak to people, through being necessary (hear the echo: art is good if it has sprung from necessity). Thus the symbols that have hung around for long enough for us to still be aware of them -- they have power, there are shared and common reasons for their staying, and learning why will leave me the wiser. Trusting myself enough to follow where instinct leads in this arena will take me to places that need tending: the feeling of being called to Mass on All Souls', the sense that Hecate was a symbol I needed enough to have set up an altar to her, to choice and chance and memory.

I will build myself armour of symbology. The ink I acquired yesterday symbolises change and choice and constancy; it is a reminder and promise to myself; and with it, with this choice, I claim this body as my own, in distinction to its being simply where I happen to live. (Part of the symbology of change is that it is sufficiently simple and sufficiently abstract that I can attach new meanings to it as desired.) And that's why I felt the need to ritually purify myself before receiving it: it is a dedication of & to myself, and deserves to be given due weight, to be taken as seriously at the beginning as I mean to go on.

tl;dr
Symbols have power and we're drawn to them (like moth to flame) for reasons. WHO KNEW.

This concludes the service. Go in peace.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 01:45 pm (UTC)
liv: In English: My fandom is text obsessed / In Hebrew: These are the words (words)
From: [personal profile] liv
This is amazing, thank you so much for setting it all down. And you actually have ink, is there going to be a post about that? Congrats, anyway!

I'm a teeny tiny bit uncomfortable with Food laws are obvious: by and large it comes down to "eat this and die, so just don't". Menstrual taboos turn out to optimise for sex resulting in conception. Cos, well, as the excellent [personal profile] oursin would say, it's All More Complicated Than That. And here you put it in fairly general terms, but I think I've seen you commenting along similar lines specifically about Jewish food and menstruation laws, maybe I'm misremembering, but I have been feeling vaguely awkward about that sort of statement for a while.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 02:11 pm (UTC)
redsixwing: A red knotwork emblem. (Default)
From: [personal profile] redsixwing
>>theology as repository of psychosocial extelligence

Why yes, I would love to read several thousand words on this, particularly when they're this well-written. Thank you for putting this out there.

Also, congratulations on your new ink!



(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 02:31 pm (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
I read this, and I think I need to read Small Gods (actually I need to read moar Discworld full stop, I've only read Hogfather, which was your fault come to think of it), and holy means important. Yes. Though that doesn't mean profane means unimportant. Differently important maybe? Meh, tangent. I'll stop.

I'm not sure if you were offline when I posted about people opting in to [personal profile] alexkharites (which, in case you did not see the post, is my access-locked supposed-to-be-daily devotional journal, because I can't handwrite these things for crap, and if nobody needs to see a thing there's always lock to private) and thus didn't see the opt-in post, or if you opted out.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 03:19 pm (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
Food laws feel a bit like the shape of contemporary "diet" advice that sorts people by blood type*: when the statement is "here are a bunch of things that are fine for your neighbors to eat, but not you," it's on the social engineering side of things, not a direct health thing. One of the odder experiences of my time in Seattle was the conversation on a bus with someone who was sure she was really/ancestrally Jewish because she's allergic to shrimp. If those practices feel right to her, I'm not going to gainsay her, but I did not inherit an allergy to shellfish or for that matter pork.

The blood type diet comes to mind because of a friend's post over on LJ yesterday. He said that as far as he can tell, none of the four diets "based on" blood type would be bad for a person, but that he could find literally nothing about why the people advocating them thought they were a good idea or where they had come from, and "God told me this is what you should do" would at least be some kind of explanation.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 03:45 pm (UTC)
haggis: (Default)
From: [personal profile] haggis
That itched my brain too because I think menstrual taboos also encode a lot of fear and disgust at female bodies (especially from times before we had a good understanding of biology). I really really like a lot of Alex's points here but I think it's worth noting that some of the extelligence encoded in religious knowledge is hatred and fear of the Other.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 03:51 pm (UTC)
haggis: (Default)
From: [personal profile] haggis
Argh - just noticed my own cis-sexism. Not all people who menstruate are female but there is definitely a history of fear and disgust of bodies-that-menstruate from men-who-do-not-menstruate.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 05:03 pm (UTC)
jenett: Big and Little Dipper constellations on a blue watercolor background (Default)
From: [personal profile] jenett
I have thoughts, but also much work, and may or may not have brain tonight, so this is a comment to say "I love talking about this stuff" and "There will be comment sometime but maybe not today!" and a "If you ever want to email or whatever, I am also good for that."

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 05:18 pm (UTC)
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)
From: [personal profile] davidgillon
Ow, wow, congratulations on the ink. Who only by moving?

observant atheist Jews

Interesting concept, my Catholicism may be shading in this direction. I can't quite shake the last little bit of belief, but I shook off the Church a long time ago for similar reasons to those you mention.

feeding the sourdough starter (I give unto it libations; it gives unto us the bread of life);

Oh, I like that and the intersection with lares and penates (which also reminds me of Shadow Unit fandom's exchange of starters and referring to them as Shoggoths).

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 08:20 pm (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai

Nod!

and also nod. access coming when I'm home.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 08:58 pm (UTC)
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)
From: [personal profile] davidgillon
Wheel, wheel!

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-29 09:11 pm (UTC)
silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
From: [personal profile] silveradept
I think I may need to see more of this, as I have managed to make myself physically ill for several days now with the contemplation of the universe continuing to exist beyond me and all the things I will not see.

My first therapist appointment is on Tuesday.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-30 03:20 am (UTC)
cadenzamuse: Cross-legged girl literally drawing the world around her into being (Default)
From: [personal profile] cadenzamuse
May I suggest to you the term "religious but not spiritual" as a fondly, gently mocking descriptor that is the inverse of "spiritual but not religious"? I have a friend who is low church Protestant (who believes in God, which I think is beside the point) who is religious-but-not-spiritual, [livejournal.com profile] hermionesviolin and if I recall correctly [personal profile] dira is Catholic-atheist religious-but-not-spiritual.

I am A+++ing your theory: I have recently rediscovered saying a rosary often, particularly while I'm driving an hour and a half home from school in the evenings. It has always been very clear to me that many Catholic prayers are as much about meditating as they are about praying, at least in the way I have interacted with them, so I was completely unsurprised when my first grasp at using mindfulness skills to calm down after a class session that made me angry was Rosary, then deep breaths and active mindfulness/grounding, then a Chaplet of Divine Mercy, then loud angry rock music, then have come down enough physiologically to set my attention elsewhere for the next hour while I finished the drive, then come home and rant about it to T. for five minutes precisely, then set it aside--and that worked quite effectively for stabilizing me and helping me both direct attention away from and bleed off anger that I knew was an over-reaction and moreover didn't have anywhere to go and so was not going to be effective in any way other than turning inwards and burning my bones to carcinogenic ash.

I wish I had more general stuff to add on to your theory or interact with, but mostly it's just: recited prayers as meditation, ritual as mindfulness, confession and Mass as CBT, exegesis as narrative therapy. (And isn't it so typical of the arrogant white Western male etc. etc. kyriarchy that psychology, invented by people steeped in kyriarchy, thought that it was a totally new thing with totally new ideas about humanity.)

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-30 08:01 am (UTC)
jedusaur: (glow cloud)
From: [personal profile] jedusaur
I don't remember you mentioning that class having an impact on you at the time, but then I might not have filed it away as notable. I think I've always underestimated the importance of religion in other people's lives because it was so completely irrelevant to mine.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-30 07:07 pm (UTC)
403: Listen to the song of the paper cranes... (Cranesong)
From: [personal profile] 403
I really like this and will appreciate however much more of it that you care to write. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-30 07:26 pm (UTC)
vass: a man in a bat suit says "I am a model of mental health!" (Bats)
From: [personal profile] vass
I have read this and liked it and found it thought-provoking but am going to bed now. I'll comment again when I have time and words.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-31 08:48 am (UTC)
ludy: Close up of pink tinted “dyslexo-specs” with sunset light shining through them (Default)
From: [personal profile] ludy
Thank you for writing this - it's fascinating and beautifully expressed.
I keep meaning to write up my own on going spiritual wanderings and wonderings (particularly in the light of occasionally attendeding church (URC which is the tradition I was brought up) as Mum's carer. But currently I have very few spoons (and doubt I will have any spare have till A is out of hospital)

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-31 11:32 am (UTC)
shewhostaples: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shewhostaples
<3

(no subject)

Date: 2015-06-01 04:45 pm (UTC)
batrachian: (Blue Frog)
From: [personal profile] batrachian
*quietly impressed*

insufficient brain to formulate a coherent response (it is being spectacularly monday), but this is a good writing and I would definitely like to hear/read/discuss more. as time and brains permit.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-06-04 12:16 am (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
Might I recommend gifting offering the rosary to a Catholic friend/relation/acquaintance/whatnot who will appreciate it?

(no subject)

Date: 2015-06-04 12:24 am (UTC)
silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
From: [personal profile] silveradept
I talked. I cried. I articulated the problem. I don't think I got any closer to a solution, and the symptoms I was hoping would vanish with having talked it out haven't gone away.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-06-04 12:40 am (UTC)
jedusaur: Stephen Fry as Jeeves with his hands held to his face. (jeeves facepalming)
From: [personal profile] jedusaur
No, but Portland is only a few hours' drive! The conference website indicates it's during the week, when I'll be working--do your travel dates include any weekend days? I could do a day trip on Sunday the 21st, or possibly Saturday the 27th, though that's Pride weekend so I have to be back in Seattle for evening clubbing plans.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-06-04 03:14 pm (UTC)
vass: Small turtle with green leaf in its mouth (Default)
From: [personal profile] vass
I have a feminist one from HerChurch/Ebenezer Lutheran, and spent a lot of time hacking the suggested prayers to make them less triggering (go figure, envisioning $DEITY as an omnipresent, omniscient mother sets me off. Who would have thought.)

(no subject)

Date: 2015-06-06 10:37 pm (UTC)
silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
From: [personal profile] silveradept
Thank you. I don't expect big questions to go down easily, so it could be a while before I have enough technique to be able to prevent them from affecting me so strongly.

(no subject)

Date: 2019-01-15 05:38 pm (UTC)
booksarelife: Tilted photo of Peggy Carter's head, shoulders and torso, where she is wearing a navy dress with two red stripes across the middle (Default)
From: [personal profile] booksarelife
So I know this is several years late, but I stumbled across this while trawling through your tags and this is amazing and very useful and to me at least, a really interesting distillation of a bunch of things. Me and religion is complicated, and will probably end up being a post on my journal at some point, but I was raised Episcopalian and was an acolyte for years and still go to church for Christmas and occasionally when I’m home, but it’s been years since I got more out of it than “familiar music and things are nice”. (Actually getting to a point here, sorry) In college I’ve started going to Shabbat services (originally because interested and lots of Jewish friends) and now I try to go every week because it’s nice and comfortable and feels calming, and there’s something about prayers/rituals in a language you don’t speak/can’t understand without translation that works for me, but I’m also not really trying to be religious/spiritual but I am interested in what Judaism has to say about a lot of things, and as such, this really spoke to me: “observant atheist Jews: people who recognise the value of the community and ritual and teachings without actually feeling any particular need to engage with the metaphysical/spiritual stuff.“

(no subject)

Date: 2019-06-20 08:25 pm (UTC)
rugessnome: bags of dried beans (cooking)
From: [personal profile] rugessnome
kind of like booksarelife, I got here years late, looking at your gnu terry pratchett tag, and I have a complicated relationship with religion (part of which is being raised erratically and eccentrically independent baptist in a way tied up with emotional abuse, and then realizing I was queer although? I'm still not actually protective of myself enough to where I would leave for myself for that. It's because to realize that I had to make queer acquaintances/friends...). I feel my lack of ritual/community/that sort of thing but struggle with being sensibly Adult in your counseling-y sense about my baggage in services anymore. And also feel drawn to observant atheist (or agnostic, which is closer to how I presently consider myself) Judaism.

A lot of this does resonate (I do think at this point my proto-[Hecate in your case] candidates are probably not from the Greek (or Roman) pantheon and tbqh I occasionally dash off a plea to anoia?!?) as a potential model for structure going forward?

(no subject)

Date: 2023-03-30 11:41 pm (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
"thou shalt not boil a kid in its mother's milk"

red meat has iron, dairy has calcium, these interfere with each other's absorption, do not take a supplement of one within two hours of taking a supplement of the other

Profile

kaberett: Trans symbol with Swiss Army knife tools at other positions around the central circle. (Default)
kaberett

February 2026

M T W T F S S
       1
23 4 5 6 78
9101112131415
16171819202122
232425262728 

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios