A quick note on brain stuff

[kaberett]

Also worked out last night: part of the reason I find it so very hard to ask for help is that I still - still - think of myself as toxic and unwanted; I work really hard at not vanishing from social groups, not deliberately fading, because for most of my teens that is what I did. I would show up for long enough to help, and then I would try to vanish again before I did any serious harm. (The reasons I believed I would are... long and tedious.)

So I position myself as caretaker and as advisor; I listen well and carefully and I offer opinions and I try very hard indeed not to "impose", even in the slightest, by requesting (or expecting!) reciprocation.

This is, as it turns out, a really bad basis for an equal and mutually-supportive relationship.

Comments

[kaberett]

(Note that there is offer/ask culture going on here, of course, and I've framed my post in terms that assume my interlocutor defaults to Ask; on the other hand, per my previous post, I actively avoid taking up offers even when they are repeated and very obviously sincere.)

[milkymoon]

I definitely understand this feeling. Worrying about asking for help because it's 'intrusive' or 'demanding' or 'manipulative' or being 'needy', even when it's a perfectly good idea to ask for help. It's taken years to be able to do it even at this rate.

[amianym]

I find, with myself, that I can usually handle asking for help when it would just be useful; when doing something myself would just be a little (or a lot) harder, when their refusal might mean I can't do something else, but I'll still be basically okay and I can give them an out. What absolutely terrifies me is when I'm running up against a bone-deep no-two-ways-about-it need that I flat-out cannot meet for myself. When if they say "no" that means I don't eat or I have nowhere safe to sleep or I will be facing an imminent loss of those things.

Those are the kinds of things I can hardly ever bring myself to ask for, because if they say "no" I can't even hope for help anymore.

[birke]

Yeah, it is. :-/ I spent a very long time being a "good listener" to people who wanted that from their friends, and discovered that I only got angry at them when they didn't listen back. Trying to be more careful about that now. But it's hard to unlearn this stuff.

[vass]

That's strange, I don't remember posting this. :(

*hugs offered*

[kaberett]

Hah. <3

And, yes, hugs.

[evilsusan]

Hey, I'm toxic and unwanted! Is that why we're friends? ;-)

[silveradept]

A bad foundation, indeed. Although the experiences that I've had that drive my need to stay invisible are usually based in the idea that getting attention or notice brings bad consequences. My adult life, regrettably, is not always trying to loosen that idea's grip.

[quirkytizzy]

I just met you - and I know online friendships are different, but smetimes they aren't so different - and I find you to be the OPPOSITE of toxic and unwanted. Your comments and insights into the dissolution of my relationship proved to be revelations that wouldn't have occurred to me otherwise - and you picked up things my other friends didn't.

I hope this doesn't sound weird or offensive, but if you felt like you had to "earn" your way into the lives of others, at least know that you are the kind of person who earned it just by being you and having the life experiences and insight that you naturally seem to have!