THANK YOU ROYAL MAIL

[kaberett]

This is a screenshot of the "Fee to Pay" page on the Royal Mail website. Titles are obligatory. They offer six options, which are given (in order) as: Mr, Miss, Mrs, Ms, Dr, Sir.

This is a screenshot of the Contact Us form to which you are directed if you tell them that you have a problem with a Redelivery or paying a fee. Again, title is an obligatory field. It offers ten options, which are given (in order) as: Mr, Mrs, Ms, Miss, Mx, Dr, Lady, Rev, Lord, Sir.

I. CANNOT. EVEN.

Comments

[sorrillia]

...what? Among other things, that seems like odd programming to me: I'm surprised they didn't just have a single list as an object somewhere.

It does seem to me that "titles are obligatory" is more common on UK than US websites: my experience with American ones is that even if they ask for binary gender elsewhere and don't let you refuse, they seem to usually treat title as optional. I'm not sure why this would be different, though, and I've certainly not done any competent sampling.

[pipisafoat]

In my US experience, even not filling in a title doesn't mean you won't get a title anyway. I mean to say, if I sign up with my wallet name (which ends in a million extraneous letters for an "el" sound), I get "Miss", whereas if I sign up with my future wallet name (name changes are expensive), I get "Mr."
and this isn't universal. like. if I'm like, hey, automated newsletter or thing where I am providing my shipping address, then I get as-entered. (and uuuuuusually title isn't required.) but if it's an alumni thing, I get titled. if it's a religious place, I get titled. (if it's my own MOTHER, i get titled. srsly mail will be delivered if you drop the title, and you REALLY don't have to put a title when you make a check out to me; if anything, that confuses people. but she's busy Proving A Point.)

the "why" on this is a big mystery to me!

[kaberett]

you will be pleased to hear I recovered from my slack-jawed amazement sufficient to write them a letter

[untonuggan]

THANK YOU FROM EVERYONE EVER FOR WRITING THEM A LETTER.

CAPSLOCK TOTALLY JUSTIFIED FOR THEIR WTFNESS.

[kaberett]

CAPSLOCK ALWAYS JUSTIFIED

[rmc28]

I'm surprised they didn't just have a single list as an object somewhere.

YOU'D THINK THAT WOULDN'T YOU

Crying into my development standards.

[kaberett]

I CRIED OVER THAT TOO

BETWEEN THEM AND [FUTURE UNIVERSITY] I AM SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING WRITING A SERIES OF VERY SAD E-MAILS TO THE TUNE OF "I AM ONLY A BABY PROGRAMMER AND I DO BETTER DATA ARCHITECTURE THAN THIS, I WILL CHARGE YOU A SMALL FLAT FEE TO FIX IT, FEEL FREE TO KEEP ME ON RETAINER FOR FUTURE USE"

[pretty_panther]

the fuck is this bullshit. i just. what.

[kaberett]

see that was pretty much where I was UP UNTIL I REALISED THEY'D GOT IT RIGHT ON THE CONTACT US FORM

... NOW I AM JUST LIKE "... HO-HOW DID YOU EVEN MANAGE THIS D:"

On the embarrassment of bein a man in address

[hairyears]

Right now, it seems that the only way to degender your name is to gain a doctorate.

As is true in many, many things, genderfail is the most visible and most damaging 'fail' on offer from this kind of thoughtlessness; but there are many lesser failures worth pointing out, because a couple of them do matter, even to the kind of idiot who thinks that salutations are sufficiently important to be made compulsory.

To start with, a number of freemen, yeomen, landed gentry and knights' equerries are slighted by the Royal Mail's insistence on a mere mister, instead of a respectfully-appended 'Esquire'.

Oh, how my heart bleeds for their massive egos and their miniscule importance... Except that they are people and if we insist that they should be addressed by name and title, they can reasonably expect that we respect their titles just as much as we respect (correctly) naming them.

They are, quite literally, entitled to that.

Oh how my wallet would bleed if, in any formal communication, I neglected the proper address of a titled noble or a senior judge. Mostly, they don't stand on ceremony and titles; but if they feel slighted they can and will make you regret it. Those titles are there for a reason, and it's better to remember that, rather than to be reminded.

Best, I think, to keep in practice by addressing all with all the courtesy that they are due, Mr, Ms, Miss, Mrs and Majesty, and all salutations in between.

...Or none. It's also worth pointing out that 'Mr', 'Mrs' and 'Miss' are titles of respect that we use, out of courtesy, to all citizens in good standing: this was not always so and 'the lower orders' were referred to or addressed by surname only, well into the nineteen-fifties. Often, in a very pointed way - and this is very much the case, even today, in schools where pupils must address the staff as 'sir' or 'miss'.

I mention this because it is still incorrect to extend such courtesies to a prisoner, or to certain classes of criminals (murderers, perjurers and those convicted of treason) after their release; it's a breach of good manners that you would debase the terms and titles of respect we use for our fellow-citizens by making identical but empty gestures of respect to those we know to be despicable.

Does that sound pompous?

A bit?

...Or a lot?

Then we should consider that all people are equal, or none, and withhold titles from all...

...As Quakers traditionally did, and some still do; as levellers and anarchists prefer to do; as caste rejectionists in several alternatives to mainstream Hindu observances do, and have died for doing, violently, within living memory. And as those from different societies prefer to do, when they are offered a limited list of parochial titles that are incorrect, or inappropriate, or nonsensical for them to use.

I haven't even started on serving members of the armed forces.

So there's an off-the cuff listing of the failures in this simple 'fail': and I am certain that a bit more thought would make a rather longer list.


Also, I was under the impression that addresses and address was someting that the *Post Office* might be good at.

Re: On the embarrassment of bein a man in address

[naath]

Quite; there are a long list of titles in use, and of course many people opt for none. A free text field where you can type in your title-of-choice would seem better than trying to make a full and complete list so as not to offend anyone.

But as with google and names it seems that many people simply haven't bothered to think outside the very small boxes that they live in. Everyone *they* know is a Mr or Mrs so obviously *everyone* *everywhere* must be (when I was booking a hotel in Amsterdam I had to choose Mr or Mrs; apparently the unmarried form is no longer in use for adult women in the Netherlands. Fortunately the mis-match with my bank details didn't cause me to not be able to pay by card).

Re: On the embarrassment of bein a man in address

[kaberett]

These is also true of a lot of Scandinavia!

Re: On the embarrassment of bein a man in address

[naath]

Yeah, I think it's a pretty good alternative to coming up with a "no marriage info" title for women; although I do like "Ms".

But lots of people are neither Mr nor Mrs (surely the Netherlands has *doctors* at least...) and people should realise this when they make forms! It's the quiet bigotry of people not even bothering to realise you exist :( :( :(

Re: On the embarrassment of bein a man in address

[kaberett]

I suspect this is the thing where Germanic languages/societies concatenate titles? so someone can end up being e.g. "Mr Dr Professor" (Herr Doktor Professor") and _all_ of them are their titles. Dunno for definite, though.