muttering about insomnia

[kaberett]

I have been observing that my default ground-in method of going to sleep is, essentially, Wait Until I'm So Exhausted I Pass Out, and in the meantime to keep Thinking About Things because I am bored.

This is not great! and furthermore it has a lot in common with the problem experienced by babies and toddlers who have not yet Learned How To Go To Sleep, who get so tired that they then can't and indeed keep desperately seeking stimulation in the hopes that this will make them feel better until...

... they pass out from exhaustion.

So! Small children learn this skill! And indeed when I remember to go to significant effort to consciously Regulate My Breathing and Engage In Progressive Relaxation and deploy Mindfulness Practices it... seems to work? I think? But it involves a lot of herding my brain back to sometimes actually counting sheepbreaths (the "sheep" doesn't work so well with the aphantasia, and goodness did finding out that was A Thing explain a lot to me about the entire "counting sheep" Metaphor people seemed to Use).

And when you Ask The Internet it seems to give you a bunch of results for "how to fall asleep in 10, 30, or 90s! as taught in The Military!" Unfortunately, what I actually wantis not the "one quick trick!" but the "here's the slow tedious work you unfortunately gotta do", even if it just winds up being "... yeah, all the things you're already trying to implement, but more consistently".

Alas, I do not currently have the brain to sift through results, but... it seems likely you lot might actually have relevant resources on this to hand? So: if you have recs, I'd very much appreciate them, and also I would gladly indulge in commiseration over wrangling the entire Internal Uncooperative Toddler situation.

Comments

[angelofthenorth]

I have to be cuddled towards sleep, as one of the annoying symptoms of bipolar is inability to self soothe. A familiar Teddy bear helps as well. If I don't have them then Rachmaninov's "vespers" is good at inducing sleep or else failing that the shipping forecast or similar.

Hope this helps - much Commiseration.

[shanaqui]

I don't know how much this helps anyone else, because brains are weird, but I am also aphantasic so counting sheep doesn't work, and counting is too boring so my brain wanders off.

Slightly more interesting, because more difficult for me, is times tables backwards from 12x12. I haven't stayed awake past the six times table in a while. This might be too easy for most people who do not jumble numbers; I did at one point start from 20x20 and work backwards from that, though right now I cannot imagine what juice my brain was on to make that work.

Either way, it is just effortful enough for me that it keeps my attention, while being boring enough that it quiets my mind.

(I actually started with my times tables forwards, a few years ago, but that became too easy. As a side effect of all this, my mental arithmetic has improved by leaps and bounds as I start to have a more intuitive grasp on numbers.)

[ewt]

Things that help me sleep when I do them consistently/intentionally:

- sung Compline
- recited in-my-head compline, I don't usually get all the way through
- praying the rosary (using my fingers to keep track, I do not take rosary beads to bed with me)
- counting breaths backward from 200
- breathing out longer than I breathe in (usually in for 3 and out for 5 or 6), there is actually physiology here but I don't have a link to hand, I suspect it is part of why singing helps me so much though
- audio books sometimes (pillow speaker headphone -- the thing I've found that works best is actually the speaker bits of a headband intended for running which has speakers in), but I almost never remember
- weighted blanket (hairyears compared it, once, to putting a blanket over a budgie cage)

The most important bit for me, though, is doing all my "get ready for bed" things *before* it's time to try to sleep, so that when I realise I'm exhausted I can just go to bed. Needing to get out of clothes or brush teeth or anything else that requires executive function is enough to make me put it off, then I miss my sleepiness window and stay up later until I have another wave of "...I really need to sleep,' and it turns out that if brushing my teeth feels overwhelming at 10pm it won't feel any easier at midnight or whatever.

I also hate going to bed alone.

[azurelunatic]

Yes! I also try to do the fill-waterbottle/bathroom/clothing/pills thing and then (against sleep hygiene recommendations) lounge in bed, but doing something quiet and occupying.

I have two phases of those. One is for when I am just waiting, and those can be nearly anything that does not make me angry, anxious, or scared. That mostly rules out Twitter, but many books are fine; match-3 is fine; I <3 Hue is not *quite* fine because it requires color accuracy and by that time my screen has gone amber for bedlighting. It can be engaging enough that I have to think about it, but cannot be so engaging that I will stay awake on purpose to do it (many books are also not fine).

The second is for when I am actively sleepy, and that is a low-light and extremely predictable card game; I have also used virtual dice games in past. It is engaging enough that I am not so bored that I wander off to Twitter; it is dull enough that I will not stay awake to play more of it.

I have a white noise, which helps block the usual Weird Noises of House, and since it is ocean noise, helps me with slow breathing.

Evening showers tend to help me, because they can have a cooling effect, and there is a core temperature drop that happens with sleep. (That was the most important thing I got out of sleep class, aside from the meds.)

[fyreharper]

Ohhhh, that is an interesting thought about singing and the breathing-out-is-relaxing thing! (

[ewt]

I mean, there are a bunch of other reasons too, but I think it would be silly to discount that particular one. And I guess I find it calming rather than relaxing as such, but for me the overlap there is strong.

[fyreharper]

Calming is a better word; that’s me blanking on the technical term for “heart rate slows down and stuff” ;)

[haggis]

I use:
Counting backwards in 7s from 100 or 200 (any number that is not a multiple of 7!)
Listening to moderately interesting but undramatic podcasts with the volume set so I can only just hear it.
Listening to well loved short stories or podfics. Familiar enough that I don't need to concentrate but enjoyable enough to stop me worrying.

[jenett]

I read before bed, and always have. (Must pick correct kind of book: "I want to stay up until 3am to finish this" is not a good choice here.)

It means I usually have at least two books going, one where I want to know what happens and one where I can read a bit and fall asleep whenever, and it's fine. (Usually some kind of non-fiction, microhistory, biography, etc. where backtracking to what I last remember is pretty easy.)

(I read on my phone, with blue-light shifting on, in dark mode, and it does not keep me up, but mileage varies a lot on this thing.)

I also use f.lux on my computer, which does blue-light shifting starting at sunset, and have found that helps a whole lot so that when I actually aim at bed, I'm mentally ready for it.

My other trick is that a drop in body temperature signals sleep. You can do this with a hot bath (showers work but somewhat less well, because less immersive) or a hot drink about half an hour to an hour before bed. I have a cooling pad on my bed, so bed is rather cool by the time I get into it.

[mtbc]

Non-fiction's typically soporific for me.

[momijizukamori]

Honestly my biggest one is melatonin supplements, because I have learned my brain just doesn't wanna turn itself off otherwise. YMMV, they're most helpful for underlying circadian rhythm problems. Other than that - guided progressive muscle relaxation or ASMR vids played on my phone, or white noise - I find if I have something outside my own head to focus on it helps distract my brain from the hamster wheel of thought long enough to fall asleep.

[azurelunatic]

My (good) sleep neurologist had things to say about melatonin supplements. The high-dose ones will absolutely put you to sleep with a hammer, but will also saturate the receptors in a way that tends to result in waking up partway through the night before done sleeping.

Her recommendation was to take 0.5 mg (500 micrograms) with dinner/around sunset/a few hours before sleep, to mimic the natural sunset Welp Let's Release Melatonin effect, so that a few hours later it will be sleep time.

This has been serving me well, and it would be serving me better if I managed to take my evening pills on time.

[momijizukamori]

Huh, I had not heard that! I will give it a go myself, because I've been having some issues with early-morning wake up.

[emperor]

I have real problems if I wake up in the middle of the night (esp from a bad dream with an adrenaline dump, or when stressed, or on a day ending with a y); my brain will grab onto all sorts of things it's too tired to think about later in the day and obsess about them.

What I try and do is to firstly stop thinking about whatever it was that woke me up (sometimes just turning over is enough, sometimes I get up and use the loo and come back to bed), and then try and stop going round and round about stuff - I can't visualise anything (brain doesn't work like that); but I find that thinking about my breath going in and out is quite often enough to stop the mind wandering (sometimes I have to bring myself back to this repeatedly).

If that's really not working, I get up and read something I know well (I have some graphic novels I love) but that's easy to put down - my brain can engage with that rather than whatever it was tying itself in knots with, and then I start yawning, which is usually a hint it's time to try going back to bed again.

Much sympathy, though, it sucks.

[ghoti]

When I remember, I do counting, with a rule that if I forget where I am, I have to start back over at one.

Most nights though, I fall asleep with the tv set to volume 2 and nothing so interesting as I'll be inclined to watch or will actually make my brain go. I tend towards home improvement or cooking shows.

[randomling]

The thing that's helped me most in the last two years is having an app called MyNoise that plays rain sound for a set time after I lie down to sleep. (I run it for an hour.) I was sceptical at first but I find it really soothing, and it gives my brain a cue that it's sleep time now, which I find really helpful. (Plus the white-noise aspect of rain kinda... takes up a certain amount of brain space that I might otherwise be using to ruminate or have other unhelpful thought patterns lying alone in the dark.)

[rugessnome]

...oh. I did not really realize how it was possible to be different from this...

Occasionally I've found that counting while doing binary with fingers, or counting in a different language ...kinda helps (or uh ...not exactly visualizing, also having aphantasia, but something sorta like that with knitting). I've also had some success sometimes with sleep podcasts like Sleep With Me or idk I think it's called Sleepy (which is actual public domain books and I think probably works better for me personally if I've read that book). I have done other podcasts in the past but I tend to try to stay awake for them which I do less with the sleep podcasts.

[ludy]

The Stop Breathe and Think/My Life app has some useful wind-down sessions with a mixture of breathing exercises, poetry and music.
Generally I listen to interesting-but-not-to-instresting podcasts at a low volume and snuggle with my Bunny

[I very much do not have aphantasia so trying to imagine sheep to count is way too mentally absorbing to be soporific!]

[sporky_rat]

I have never been very good at the putting myself to sleep thing, recessional probably has some good information on children and babies learning this and how.

I have a very strict 'it is time for going to bed' routine if it's a weekday except Friday, it gets pushed back an hour on Friday.
-brush teeth
-shower, if it's shower night OR
-turn on electric blanket timer for thirty minutes to warm up bed
-wash face
-change into pyjamas
-get into bed
-plug in phone
-turn on white noise
-turn off side lamp
-start counting in as many languages as I can the number of exhales

Then I really hope that I don't wake up in the middle of the night and have to do some of it all over again.

I have frequently had to take naps during the day because I have felt like a too tired toddler and got sent to go pass out.

[vass]

As You Know, Alex, this is something I struggle with too.

I don't have a link to resources, but I do have a summary of some things that have helped for me, some things my psych's told me (as a psychologist who works with autistic clients, a lot of whom have sleep problems) and general principles:

- principles: I don't have a cite for this, but I do have the vague sense that "the slow tedious work you unfortunately gotta do" is probably something like doing what skilled and caring parents do when putting their babies to bed, only for yourself. Especially the routine-setting parts of it. So parenting guides on How To Bedtime are probably something one could mine for ideas to adapt for one's own adult situation
- things my psych says: it can help to make changes on the waking up side of the equation, not just the going to sleep side. Doing some kind of personal writing before bed (e.g. dashing down your thoughts in a personal diary) can be helpful. A winding down period before bed is usually helpful, as opposed to going from fully active to bedtime now. Putting on something to listen to while you're winding down or actually trying to sleep helps a lot of her clients: music, audiobooks, podcasts. She particularly recommends books you've already read and find pleasant but not compelling or exciting. Weighted blankets can be good. She doesn't recommend banning screens in the winding-down period, but she does recommend limiting your screen activity to things that aren't going to wind you up.
- sleep hygiene tips I've osmosed from other sources: are you warm/cool enough? Your temperature's expected to drop a little when you fall asleep, for whatever that's worth.
- things that have helped me: blocking blue light in the evening (thank you for the reminder to check if redshift was running), turning off the overhead lights and turning the lamps on in the the evening, smaller, earlier dose of melatonin (hours before I actually want to sleep), blue light in the morning, sole dose of caffeine for the day with my morning meds
- (One Weird Trick) once I'm in bed and trying to sleep, a thing that helps (for me) with that is, when the hypnagogic hallucinations start, listening to them instead of trying to ignore it - but without trying to make sense of it (if I try to understand the words, I wake up again.) (Infodump for anyone reading this who might not know: hypnagogia is when your mind is somewhere in between REM sleep and fully awake, and can involve lucid dreaming, sleep paralysis, and hallucinations. Most often sounds (such as jumbled up speaking voices), sometimes the "Tetris effect" of seeing a computer game you've been playing a lot of, and sometimes feeling like you're falling or being rocked. If it happens when you're falling asleep or waking up, that's normal. If it happens at other times, that might be a sign that you have narcolepsy.)

[gumbie_cat]

I just found these today: the BBC have a selection of "Deep sleepscapes" available.

[rmc28]

Was it a particularly insomniac week or something? I couldn't fall asleep Wednesday night until about 4am, and paid for it most of yesterday (and probably some of today).

Most of the time I fall asleep at some point between 9 & 11pm, although there is a failure mode where if I don't, I often stay awake until about 1am instead. 4am is just ridiculous though. However, the normal routine goes roughly as follows:

• notice I am feeling sleepy
• putter around doing things like clean my teeth, put on sleeping clothes, chase teenager off the computer and check that he's fed his cat, check my diary for tomorrow and adjust my alarm if needed
• lie down in bed and depending how sleepy I'm feeling
  • do a bit of Duolingo / Babbel (this tires my brain out quite quickly, I have been known to conk out over the phone screen) and/or
  • put on an audiobook or podcast

Audiobooks are like magic - clearly I was trained by my parents to fall asleep to someone reading to me. It works best if it's a book I've already read, and I know exactly what is going to happen, and I don't mind listening to it in five-to-fifteen-minute increments with a fair bit of scrolling back and repetition. Audiobooks entirely new to me are better for things like long walks or a commute.

Podcasts work similarly and I tend to use Beo Ar Éigean because it has three Irish women who sound cheerful and happy together and I understand approximately 40% of what they are saying even with the speed turned down to 0.7x but it is soothing happy talking. Sometimes I use Radio Sweden på lätt svenska but because it's a news programme it often has less-than-soothing content so it's less good.

For audio options I have a sleep headband with flat speakers which I use if someone is sharing the room with me, or I just leave it on speaker like a barbarian if I'm on my own.

More recently I have been trying out a rain noise app to help 8yo sleep. It seems fairly effective on me too, so that's an alternative to put in the soothing-audio rotation.

[jesse_the_k]

Slow breathing

In for 4 beats, out for 6 beats.

Count at the end of every exhale, from 1 to 11, then back down to 1.

Repeat.

If I miss the count, then back to 1