kaberett: a watercolour painting of an oak leaf floating on calm water (leaf-on-water)
[personal profile] kaberett
[I am using The Dialectical Behaviour Therapy Skills Workbook. DBT is a form of therapy that was developed by Marsha Linehan who would diagnose her 17-year-old self with Borderline Personality Disorder (CN for graphic discussion of self-injury, suicidality, and institutionalisation at that link).]

There are two intended audiences for The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook. The first is people who are in dialectical behavior therapy (either group or individual) and need a workbook to help learn the four key skills. We also wrote this book so it could be used independently by anyone who struggles with overwhelming feelings.

To the surprise of... approximately nobody, I proceeded to have a great deal of difficulty with the very first exercise. The introduction does a lot of modelling provision of appropriate validation (which means a different thing to my previous discussion on the topic, but I intend to write more about that having now significantly clarified my thoughts on the topic via discussion with [personal profile] sebastienne), which I'm certainly finding interesting to read, but -- then this happens:
The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook is written to make learning easy. The hard part will be making the commitment to do the exercises and put your new skills into practice. Nothing will change by just reading. The words on these pages will have no impact on your life unless you implement--behaviorally--the new techniques and strategies you will learn here. So now is a good time to think about why you are reading this book and what you want to change. Right here, on this page, write down three ways you currently react to your emotions that you want to change. In other words, what three things do you do when upset or overwhelmed that are damaging--and that you are committed to replace with better ways to cope?

... and, well, I have a lot of problems with that framing. Starting with: please do not tell me what the bits I am going to find hard are (as opposed to suggesting what I might find difficult). The statement that "nothing will change by just reading" is a fascinating absolutism that I don't believe (and I'm supposed to be continuing to work on moving away from binary thinking!).

... and most importantly, I really am not happy with treating "three ways [I] currently react to [my] emotions that [I] want to change" as synonymous with "three things [I] do [...] that are damaging", because actually I have done a lot of work here already and I'm incredibly reluctant to unequivocally describe my massive progress and improvement as "damaging".

So I crossed out that sentence, from "In other words" to "damaging", and I decided I was going to modify the exercise, to (a) list three areas of progress I've already made that I'm proud of, and (b) list three things I'd like to improve further.

Which I found remarkably difficult, but what I came up with was this:
PRIDE
1. I'm proud that I'm getting so much better at noticing early-warning-sign type emotions, and identifying their causes.

2. I'm proud that I am managing to identify transient emotions as transient/unrealistic, even while in crisis, and that I manage to avoid treating them as persistent or accurate reflections of reality.

3. I'm proud that the amount of time it takes me to identify things that I can trust, and that would actually materially help, has significantly reduced over the past two years.

4. I'm proud that I'm getting better at trusting other people appropriately. (whoops an extra one)

IMPROVEMENT
1. I already do a pretty good job of identifying -- in the moment -- overwhelming and compelling emotions that are transient and do not reflect my stable understanding of the world, and consequently not actively acting on them. Currently I am managing 45 minutes of crying followed by 20 minutes of angry girl rock in the dark; ideally, I'd be able to ask for (and believe) immediate appropriate reassurance about my misinterpretation, rather than reacting to emotions of loneliness/abandonment/etc by accusing people (even internally) of not wanting me.

2. "This is my fault and I am bad; I should remove myself from people's lives rather than further inconvenience them by having needs/boundaries/panics." This IS a reaction to emotions -- it's feeling guilt and shame about having big, loud emotions that take up space at all.

3. I'd like to improve my emotional permanence -- to be able to reliably believe that people aren't dead/do still like me/etc. It's great that I've reduced the frequency with which I request reassurance, and it's great that I'm mostly able to act on knowledge rather than belief, but... now I'm getting stuck because I think what I'm actually doing here is wishing the emotions away rather than validating them, because my current reactions to said emotions are pretty much ideal, I think, taking as read that The Emotions Are Going To Happen And Aren't Inherently Bad.

3a. Hmm. Shall we try this one again? Okay: not thinking I have to give up on academic things/I'm inherently a failure because I'm struggling with something, or at least, improving my resilience to that and my ability to self-soothe on it. (I think this is importantly different from point 2, because it's about a context not about a people.)

... which was hard work not just because of coming up with the items, but because I was having to self-soothe about the second-guessing about, basically, Being Non-Compliant: if I resist the exercises, or refuse to do them, or rearrange them to make them more comfortable, am I actually going to make any progress? Is this arrogant self-sabotage?

And I think the answer is: no, I'm thinking carefully and critically, and taking into account the fact that the target audiences for this book are people who (a) are allistic, and (b) have done much less prior work/reading/research than I have.

This conclusion is supported by the part where, 18 pages later, the book says that one of the basic distress tolerance skills you can use is in fact temporarily removing yourself from the situation while you calm down enough to deal with it constructively -- and I don't think it's fair or reasonable to ask me to describe as unequivocally damaging a behavioral modification they actively suggest as being "sometimes the best thing you can do". Like: I don't think it's ideal, not least because of its intersection with other people's problems, and I do want to get better and handling it in specific identifiable ways, but I... am glad I trusted my gut on balking at, as I say, explicitly calling out as "damaging" a behaviour about which they later say "Sometimes the best thing you can do is leave."

Of course I'm still second-guessing myself about non-compliance, but (I'm most of the way through chapter 1 and will write that up next, though possibly not today) again, I think -- this is yet another thing where I'm a weird edge-case, and I'll make much more progress with sensible adaptations to my actual situation than I will gritting my teeth and doing exactly what the book tells me to. I am going to check in about this with my counsellor (which feels a bit like asking an external authority for permission to trust myself, but is actually, I think, rather closer to asking an expert to check I'm not barking up completely the wrong tree) when next I see them, is the plan.

But to start with: I am proud of myself for sticking with this exercise, even though it was difficult, and for genuinely trying to think through both reasonable adaptations and my answers -- and for spotting when an answer I was writing boiled down to "I want to stop having these emotions", which is not even remotely the point.

First steps.

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Date: 2016-10-01 11:13 am (UTC)
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)
From: [personal profile] davidgillon
It sounds to me like you are taking an extremely sensible approach. As you've identified, you aren't typical of this book's target audience, being both neurodiverse, and having a degree of self-introspection/analysis/understanding that's extremely rare. It's written for someone who isn't you, and modifying it to fit is entirely appropriate.

It's no different than listening to a physio telling you 'You need to do X', while not listening to bendy specifics, and modifying it to X* when you get home to take account of individual needs. I've certainly done that, and I've no doubt you will have as well.

And as you say, it's taking a rather absolutist, binary approach to things it wants you to do, whereas the description of Marsha Linehan's work in the article seems much more about adapting to meet the patient half way and then working from there.

And if it does turn out a variant approach you take isn't entirely working, then you get to learn from that and try again. This isn't something with wrong answers, merely answers you learn greater or lesser amounts from.

Remember, non-compliance is a social skill ;)

I think you should be deservedly proud, and it's good to see you writing about stuff again.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-10-01 01:01 pm (UTC)
shehasathree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shehasathree
Hah. *offers high five of solidarity*
I have been (very very slowly) working through this with my psychologist who specialises in working with autistic women and girls, and there are definitely things in it that i find helpful. And yeah, turns out that actually doing the exercises works better than knowing about how they're supposed to work; go figure. I still take offense at that framing of the first exercise for exactly the reasons you have a problem with it, and a lot of the exercises i literally cannot do until i have corrected and qualified the framing or other assumptions, or figured out how to get at the essence of what the exercise is trying to do, and tweaking it for my bodymind.

It's sort-of a black-and-white perfectionist thing, because I need things to be CORRECT, or ...at least not empirically incorrect? But otoh, what that generally means, in practice, is "screw your oversimplification, imma fix this by modifying [in x, y and x ways]. Ooh, now it works! \o/".

So ... yeah. *all the solidarity*



<333

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Date: 2016-10-01 02:41 pm (UTC)
chiasmata: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chiasmata
Ohhh, /interesting/. Thanks for posting. I look forward to reading more on this, as and when.

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Date: 2016-10-01 03:22 pm (UTC)
wohali: photograph of Joan (Default)
From: [personal profile] wohali
Thank you so much for sharing this, and your journey, with us (and me specifically!)

>>And I think the answer is: no, I'm thinking carefully and critically, and taking into account the fact that the target audiences for this book are people who (a) are allistic, and (b) have done much less prior work/reading/research than I have.<<

My therapists always pointed this out to me when I felt completely underwater in my emotions. Somehow, even in the worst of it, I always was thinking carefully and critically, and this is what has helped me all along.

I land somewhere on the autistic spectrum myself. I very much appreciate both your revised framing and the fact that the book sounds aimed at allistic beginners rather than anyone who's already seriously taken steps to alter their behaviour knowingly.

Again my own experience here is limited to CBT, which I simply consider one tool in the bag - it's got its limitations and can't cover everything. I read this article about CBT vs. DBT and while the theory differences in DBT as a new tool appeal to me, the practice section surprised me: typically, weekly group therapy accompanies psych-led DBT individual sessions. I've been involved in group therapy before and it's typically deeply unsatisfying. I don't know how well I'd react to trying to deal with all of these topics AND have to confront a bunch of strangers at the same time while doing so.

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Date: 2016-10-01 03:58 pm (UTC)
sebastienne: My default icon: I'm a fat white person with short dark hair, looking over my glasses. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sebastienne
Thanks so much for this!

As I was reading, I wondered if you'd zoned in too much on "damaging" as meaning something like "awful, horrible, blame-able", when it could alternatively be read as meaning something like "not preferred, un-ideal"?

So, for example, leaving the room can TOTALLY be the best thing to do /in a given context/.. and it can be something that you'd like to work towards not doing / not having to do.

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CN self-injury methods and also suicide mention

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Date: 2016-10-01 04:56 pm (UTC)
divulge: (Default)
From: [personal profile] divulge
Thank you for posting about this! I look forward to reading more.

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Date: 2016-10-01 05:44 pm (UTC)
vass: T-Rex and Utahraptor in a clinch with a heart above their heads (T-Rex/Utahraptor 4 Evar)
From: [personal profile] vass
I've been working through the same workbook and it looks like we're at roughly the same part of it.

Starting with: please do not tell me what the bits I am going to find hard are (as opposed to suggesting what I might find difficult). The statement that "nothing will change by just reading" is a fascinating absolutism that I don't believe

Same on both counts. You know what will change for me by just reading? MY LEVEL OF TRUST IN THE WORKBOOK AND WILLINGNESS TO COMMIT TO IT. I'm not going to follow their advice before I know what it is, obviously I would want to read it before doing the work.

So I crossed out that sentence, from "In other words" to "damaging", and I decided I was going to modify the exercise, to (a) list three areas of progress I've already made that I'm proud of, and (b) list three things I'd like to improve further.

I like your reframe. And I like the idea of using a workbook this way -- making part of your work within it crossing out the printed parts that don't work and amending them.

"This is my fault and I am bad; I should remove myself from people's lives rather than further inconvenience them by having needs/boundaries/panics." This IS a reaction to emotions -- it's feeling guilt and shame about having big, loud emotions that take up space at all.

♥ same.

Okay: not thinking I have to give up on academic things/I'm inherently a failure because I'm struggling with something, or at least, improving my resilience to that and my ability to self-soothe on it.

That sounds like a good goal. I think also it compliments #2 well because it's more concrete and specific, so possibly easier to identify when you're practising it, and what your learn from it might transfer to #2.

Worth mentioning maybe, since it was hard coming up with the items: they don't have to be your three greatest priorities or the only three things you'll ever do DBT work about, right? They're just three things to work on right now, given that you can't tackle everything that you'd like to change about your reactions all at once.

I was having to self-soothe about the second-guessing about, basically, Being Non-Compliant: if I resist the exercises, or refuse to do them, or rearrange them to make them more comfortable, am I actually going to make any progress? Is this arrogant self-sabotage?

A thing I fight all the time in my own head, but feel very, very comfortable reassuring you about: nope. Not even because it was written for allistics. It was written for a vague, general, one size fits all audience, and they said in the introduction that if it's not working for you then see a therapist for more individual help. That means they know that they can't actually see into your head and know that they are allowing for your specific situation.

Well, or it means they don't know if you're Compliant Enough or Reading Them Correctly, but I'm gonna have a passing moment of assuming good faith and decide the writers aren't arrogant jerks who assume they're psychic and that their advice will work for everyone.

If someone on the other side of the world writes in a book that you-generic should and must go for a brisk walk right now, no excuses, and you know that right this moment you are on fire and should actually instead stop, drop, roll and then treat your burns, that doesn't mean you're being arrogant and self-sabotaging or dismissive and prejudiced and scornful (my ex-psych's words about me in similar contexts.)

It doesn't mean you're assuming you know more than the writers about everything, just that you're assuming you know more about your own specific situation than someone who knows literally nothing about you other than that you are reading this book.

Besides which... *puts on t-shirt* *points to t-shirt* Non-compliance is a social skill.

I think -- this is yet another thing where I'm a weird edge-case, and I'll make much more progress with sensible adaptations to my actual situation than I will gritting my teeth and doing exactly what the book tells me to.

It is also tentatively possible that an allistic person would be much less rigidly compliant/adherent to their advice and much less guilty about not rigidly complying, than the standard you're second-guessing yourself for not holding yourself to. I wouldn't know -- I get guilty about disobeying written instructions by strangers too, and once scared my mother shitless by shouting because we drove past a bar that had a light up sign saying SHOUT. But I think it's likely.

is actually, I think, rather closer to asking an expert to check I'm not barking up completely the wrong tree

I think so too. Also, your counsellor has a duty of care to you, the authors of this workbook do not. Their intentions are good and they are knowledgeable, but they are not accountable to you about your life. You are, and your counsellor is too, so it makes sense not to abdicate your decision-making to the workbook writers.

Congrats on getting through the exercise.

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Date: 2016-10-01 09:29 pm (UTC)
sebastienne: My default icon: I'm a fat white person with short dark hair, looking over my glasses. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sebastienne
It is also tentatively possible that an allistic person would be much less rigidly compliant/adherent to their advice and much less guilty about not rigidly complying, than the standard you're second-guessing yourself for not holding yourself to.

I considered saying something like this, but refrained as I didn't want to be That Allistic Person saying "Maybe It Is Because Autism". But, for the record, I feel that this is very plausible.

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Date: 2016-10-01 06:13 pm (UTC)
shewhostaples: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shewhostaples
Holy One True Wayism, Batman!

(Them, not you.)
Edited (for clarity ) Date: 2016-10-01 06:19 pm (UTC)

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Date: 2016-10-02 12:53 am (UTC)
ironed_orchid: watercolour and pen style sketch of a brown tabby cat curl up with her head looking up at the viewer and her front paw stretched out on the left (Default)
From: [personal profile] ironed_orchid
the target audiences for this book are people who... (b) have done much less prior work/reading/research than I have.

I find this is an issue I have with many of these books/models/exercises, and one that stops me from seeking out help when I'm not activity in crisis.

I like that u managed to rephrase things so that you could do the exercise and acknowledge the progress you have already made.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-10-03 03:07 am (UTC)
shehasathree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shehasathree
I have yet to find a book/etc for which this is not the case, and it is actually a non-minor problem for me, because so many of my ~issues~ are around stuff like:
*understanding/being understood/being able to make myself understood
'*being misrepresented by others
*being accused of not-trying-hard-enough
*being 'not smart enough'
*dealing with criticism (constructive and otherwise)
*being told that i'm overthinking/overanalysing/making things too complex/being too intense.

I also find it damn difficult to trust anyone psy professional or book) who seems to have a less in-depth understanding of a thing than i do, especially if they're telling me stuff that is empirically false because they just made a generalising statement that doesn't actually apply to me.

Trying to be critical without overly cynical is kind of working for me? And also picking at stuff to try and figure out *why* it's wrong and whether it's just gonna be one of those things about which i am NOPE, or if it just needs tweaking.

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Date: 2016-10-02 05:05 am (UTC)
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] staranise
DBT was developed as an intervention literally for people who have ended up in the psych ward after the most recent of several suicide attempts. So yes, you have a looot more nuance/commitment to the process than the kind of people it was initially written for.

And, well, part of the PROCESS, part of what the book is meant to do, is be there to argue with. An essential problem of BPD is that people with it have been used to being told what to do and how to feel; part of the essential dialectic of the therapy is learning how to disagree with authority without rejecting it completely; learning how to adjust it to be a useful guide, how to have nuanced opinions about it, to appreciate its strengths and weaknesses. If the book were absolutely perfect for you so you could just trust everything it said, that would be less useful than a book you have to hack out a precarious working relationship with. So yes, scribbling in the margins is a perfect response.

I really love your pride/future work exercise, and would absolutely like to steal it in the future to use with clients whose work so far is worth honouring and celebrating.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-10-02 11:25 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ewt
part of the essential dialectic of the therapy is learning how to disagree with authority without rejecting it completely; learning how to adjust it to be a useful guide, how to have nuanced opinions about it, to appreciate its strengths and weaknesses.

This sounds like a very useful skill to learn.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-10-03 03:01 am (UTC)
shehasathree: (facepalm)
From: [personal profile] shehasathree
You'd think i'd be better at remembering this part, given that
a) it's right there in the fricking name,
b) it's why i liked the idea of DBT so much better than CBT in the first place, and
c) i am generally pretty intense about binaries being problematic, etc etc.
/o\
Thank-you for the reminder! \o/

(no subject)

Date: 2016-10-02 11:23 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ewt
Thank you, v interesting, I have thoughts but I am not sure if I can make them into words. Book sounds useful but also infuriating.

I like your reframing a lot (and also find it terrifying because I am not sure I am at a stage where I could find three things I am proud of, which probably means it would be a good exercise for me to try with support from my brainhacker).

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