...

[kaberett]

So I have spent Several Years being utterly perplexed at the idea that it's impossible to put a corset on without help from a second person.

It has literally only just occurred to me that my complete bafflement on the topic might be because my shoulders are hypermobile.

Is-- is that it? Is that why there's this bizarre incomprehensible cultural meme that the only way you can possibly put a corset on solo is with the aid of a coathanger and a doorknob? ENLIGHTEN ME, INTERNET.

Comments

[davidgillon]

Yeah I think it's us (though the only corsets I've worn are orthopaedic and front fastening).

I could never work out why people wanted back-brushes or loofahs in the bath (possibly more common pre most houses having showers), it only occurred to me it's because most people can't touch every point on their back a couple of years ago.

[naath]

I can put corsets on on my own without help provided they have a front opening. That is, I can tighten laces that are in-place but I can't put the lace in. But I don't generally bother with tugging all the bits, I just assume that it'll even itself out.

[kaberett]

Hmm, okay, perhaps not just hypermobility then!

[naath]

I can reach almost all of my back (the bit I can't now itches, dammit, shouldn't think about back-reaching), but the part of the corset laces I need to grab are at about waist height and I can pull them a lot to the side to tighten so it's hardly a difficult reach at all (for me), easier than fastening a bra. It took some practice to be able to tie knots behind my back though.

[highlyeccentric]

It depends on the way the laces are organised! And whether or not there's a separate front fastening.

My old corset had long loop laces that stayed in place: those were easy to tighten once you'd hooked the metal fasteners on the front. If one had to lace the corset from the bottom up like bootlaces, the situation would be a lot more difficult. (Even if you are flexible get it laced you wouldn't be able to pull it tight as easily..)

[kaberett]

All of mine have front busks and laces what you tighten up the back; I have been consistently politely baffled at obviously encouraging and supportive advice to people who don't have folk available to help as to how to tighten it when you just... bend? People don't just bend like that, Alex.

[ineptshieldmaid]

I think not all back laces are the same, though. Because some corsets are sold as self-lacing and some aren't. Presumably there are different ways to set up the laces.

[liv]

I was the opposite: I spent years feeling inadequate cos I can't put a corset on on my own, and therefore thinking I don't really have the right to wear them. And some friends assured me that it's completely normal to need another person and I'm not just too uncoordinated to wear fancy clothes. My problem is not entirely that it's hard to reach behind my back, but that I get confused by all the loops and ties as well.

[kaberett]

Oh pfff no you absolutely do (which clearly you do believe now!).

Getting confused/losing track I can very much understand (I think I'm helped here by the amount of braiding my own hair and horses' hair I've done over the years) but I don't see that the well-meaning supportive advice that made 0 sense whatsoever to me would help with that.

And, to be clear, I think it's completely reasonable to need or want other people to help -- I've just spent several years quietly politely perplexed at the very vocal parts of the internet I'd seen suggesting that doing it solo was just straight-up across-the-board impossible or at best very unusual, which didn't tally at all with my experiences -- and as I say I've only just realised this might be because I've got a substantially larger range of motion even in my "good" shoulder than is normal!

[untonuggan]

I cannot put my own bra on reliably, but that is maybe not an accurate representation because I stopped with the bras because I kept pulling my shoulder when I did it and not being able to use it for days. Er. So probably that is not what happens to "most people" with corsets.

[untonuggan]

See also: sometimes getting stuck halfway in or out of my shirt.

[kaberett]

... idk I could never get the hang of putting bras on without doing them up at the front and wiggling them round, but then I stopped wearing them completely when I was about 16 because No Just No. (Oh wow, it's nearly ten years since I last wore a bra. GOSH that feels good.)

[naath]

oddly I've never got the hang of the wiggling the bra round thing... like? doesn't it *hurt*? (maybe I wear my bras tighter than average? idk?).

[kaberett]

I mean... yes, it did hurt some? but not any more than any other aspect of wearing a bra? bras hurt and were awful and I Just Don't. (Binding also hurts and is awful a lot at the moment so I'm mostly just... not bothering. At all. And really looking forward to this being a Solved Problem via the magic of Modern Medicine.)

(Also you wiggle it around in the direction that means that the flappy bit with the eyes on gets smoothed out the direction it's supposed to go rather than trying to double back on itself, but also I don't think that's actually a thing that you're flagging up as a problem that needed solving!)

[naath]

Not wearing things that hurt is certainly a Winning Strategy. Modern Medicine is awesome and will hopefully solve this for you soon.

(I think this would have become obvious had I ever really tried, but no, it's the scraping-against-skin that I can't stand, if the bra is loose enough to do that comfortably it is too loose to provide the support I want)

[redbird]

That may not be something naath was flagging up, but it's one I will try to remember for the days when my shoulder is bothering me or I'm otherwise having trouble with fastening the thing while the hooks and eyes are behind me.

[azurelunatic]

I can't wiggle it around because I'm squishy and in order to support my tits it's got to be Quite Tight even though I'm squishy.

[shehasathree]

Yes, but it's literally the only option i have for putting on my bra if my partner is not around. (I would love front-fastening ones, but they're rarer than hens teeth and cost at least twice as much.) I also tend to wear them quite tight, and have taken to standing in front of a fan while dressing so that my skin is completely dry, otherwise: badness.

Ironically(?) the reason that i am unable to do up my bra (or anything else) behind me, is...my hypermobility. My shoulders have been "stiff" for as long as i can remember - turns out that's the chronic muscle spasms and osteoarthritis, and the joints themselves actually have notable laxity. /o\
(I'm assuming my shoulders subluxed all the time when i was teeny-tiny until they just NOPEd out, but no-one noticed.)

[rjw76]

If a bra fits correctly then unless you have an unusually small waist for the rest of your size it will be uncomfortable to clasp it at the front and wiggle it round. To provide adequate support the back band does need to be pretty tight.
I assume that smaller breasted people have less trouble in this area because the annoying thing for me when wiggling the bra is that the rather ample underwires catch on the base of my breasts...

[kaberett]

Unusually small waist was in fact where I was at last time I wore them, good catch.

[karen2205]

I still put bras on like this - I never mastered being able to do up hooks behind my back.

I can manage lacing a corset behind my back, providing the laces are long enough to reach my mouth when it's loose. I don't have hypermobile joints.

[sebastienne]

It's definitely a learnable skills for non-hypermobile people (eg, me) though as other commenters have pointed out, it needs to have a front busk and centred lacing on the back (but tbh any other configuration of corset is DUBIOUS and PROBABLY PLASTIC-BONED anyway).

But obviously, not everybody has a burlesque-performing alter-ego and needs to put in the time to learn like I did. And even those of us who can self-corset might find it easier or more fun to have someone else help out... so there are motivations for asking for help other than just, "I can't do this alone" IYSWIM

As for the coathanger/doorknob stuff, I've never really come across that so probably shouldn't comment.. but my instinct is that a meme like that could have originated from mocking people who were too poor to afford a ladies' maid? Or if it's a more modern thing, perhaps from SERIOUS tight-lacers who just need more force than they can reasonably pull backwards from themself?

[naath]

I have a variety of not-corsets (mostly 16th century stuff) that lace, and the sort with just a back lace are impossible for me to manage alone, side lacing I can just about do but it HURTS and frustrates so I usually use a veeeeeeeeeeeery long lace that I leave in (like srsly, 10' or so) then I can wiggle in and out and then tug it tight which is frustrating, but less so (some people are more wiggly than me too, I have wide hips and shoulders compared to my waist, which doesn't help, and I'm not very flexible). Of course front lacing is massively easier to do alone, which is why back-laced gowns are a sign of status...

[kaberett]

Coathanger/doorknob: something I have more-than-once seen given as supportive advice in a contemporary setting to people who didn't have help getting corsetry on available, including on one occasion directly to me. Definitely not about class/maids in the contexts I've met it!

I absolutely get motivations for asking for help other than "I can't do this alone" (and indeed have asked for help for several of those reasons!) -- it's just that pre-Lashings-exposure I had seen a lot of (as I say, obviously well-meaning encouraging supportive) advice suggesting that it was unusual or impossible to get corsets on yourself and you shouldn't expect to be able to (and weren't a failure if you couldn't, is the key thing).

The reason this post happened is I saw something similar go by on the internet earlier and abruptly realised that having a much larger range of motion than population normal even in my good shoulder might be some of the disconnect I was experiencing there.

I mean, I think some more of it is once again "I've seen a slightly weird set of advice" and possibly also "I saw a bunch of stuff aimed at people who hadn't really had much experience getting into corsets and took it to be General Statements About The World due to failure to detect context", but. I don't know! Monkeys are hard.

(<3)

[dadcastellanos]

I can do it without another person but it's more uncomfortable, esp since my chest is pretty large & requires juggling. I have a ... not a proper corset but something I forget the name of that is front-fastening, and once it's PROPERLY laced (which does need another person for me bc I can't reach back there) it can just be taken off/put back on w hooks alone.

also I'm going to go w the comment above me - the doorknob/coathanger thing is probably a jab at poorer people w no money for maids - but tbh I can't fathom using a doorknob or a coathanger to put on a corset so this is boggling to me, haha.

[kaberett]

Bustier, perhaps?

As I've just said to sebastienne, all of the contexts in which I'd seen the doorknob/coathanger thing suggested were ones that were contemporary, and clearly intended to be supportive and encouraging (including having it said to me at least once) so I'm pretty sure it's not (always) a class thing.

As I have also worked through above (sebastienne is great okay) I think this might actually turn out to be a mix of "I have pathologically mobile shoulders" and "I don't always do a brilliant job of discerning the scope to which a stated thing applies", heh. Which! I am enjoying working out. :-)

(The "as I've said above" is "I go into a bit more detail there if you're interested but there's no particular reason you'd actually notice my having done so" rather than... any of the other things it could be, for clarity.)

[dadcastellanos]

YES, bustier. I always forget what it's called until literally it is on my body, ahaha.

that's interesting! I still .. just cannot fathom how that would even work, but that's good to hear. & I feel you on the discerning scope thing, I'm bad at that too. =w=

(XDD gotcha!)

[ewt]

I think it depends on the corset. I can tighten a corset without help, and I know the necessary lacing configuration to do that, but I need to actually lace it before it goes on.

But then -- my shoulders are moderately hypermobile, if stiffer than they used to be.

[staranise]

Very much depends on the corset. If you want a very cinched waist it's normally a two-person job, but otherwise, eh, it varies. I find it easier to lace up my stays behind my back (pre-laced with a very long cord) than to zip up a back closure, because then my hands don't necessarily have to reach between my shoulderblades.

[damerell]

Apropos of nothing much, I'm always surprised that there's no arrangement like a corset but with the front join incorporating some sort of cam arrangement like a bicycle's quick-release. Once it's laced right, you just pop in and out of it using the QR cam.

[macey]

I've never had much trouble lacing myself into my full or underbust corsets, and afaik my shoulders aren't particularly flexible. /datum

[ceb]

I can do it by myself without assistance but there's a limit to how tight I can make one without help from a doorknob (OK) or another person (better).

[rjw76]

I can put a corset on and tighten it fully without aid from another person, and am not especially flexible, but do have longer than average arms and better than average fine motor control.
There are better and worse ways of lacing a corset to make this easier; my preferred method is to start the laces from the top and run them to the bottom with a loop pulled out by lacing out and back on the *same* side at the waist (it needs to be on the waist!) which I then tie in a bow. http://corsets.matazone.co.uk/information.php?info_id=14 is a good diagram but NO you do not pull out the loop in the middle of the holes, you pull out the loop on the *narrowest part of the corset* which will be sitting on your waist.
All this means you have a loop to pull on to do the tightening, which is easier for most people than a lace end, and also means that the lacing will have least slippage at the waist, which is generally what you want.
In addition, a custom corset will be easier to lace yourself than an off-the-rack one, because it is the same shape as your body. This means that the corset will be tightened equally all the way up and down rather than the approximation you get from an off-the-rack unless you *just happen* to be the right height and width for it.