Hugo reading: The Three-Body Problem, Cixin Liu (trans. Ken Liu)

[kaberett]

(17:27:27) kaberett: (... also oh my GOD this BOOK)
(17:27:31) kaberett: (do not read this book it is terrible)
(17:29:03) me_and: which book is this book?
(17:29:09) kaberett: The Three-Body Problem, Cixin Liu
(17:29:14) kaberett: there are many, many issues with it
(17:29:42) kaberett: the one I've just hit is someone asserting that every single person on a boat traversing the Panama Canal with a capacity of 2000 passengers will be asleep. at the same time. at night.
(17:29:49) kaberett: and that they'll all be awake during the day.
(17:30:15) kaberett: ... earlier on there was an assertion that you can use Monte Carlo simulations as an analogy for how to solve the three-body problem
(17:31:08) kaberett: ... also, right, the Sun will reflect _and amplify by up to a hundred-million fold_ radio waves incident upon it provided they're in the right frequency range
(17:31:16) kaberett: like
(17:31:29) kaberett: oh right _and_ we're going with the 11-dimensional string theory bollox
(17:31:29) kaberett: like
(17:31:34) kaberett: sorry m8 this isn't how suspension of disbelief in SF
(17:31:37) kaberett: it just isn't????
(17:32:09) kaberett: ALSO NUCLEAR FUSION IS HAPPENING IN JUPITER'S CORE
(17:32:15) kaberett: ... THAT OR PLATES OF METALLIC HYDROGEN
(17:32:17) kaberett: YOU'RE WELCOME

Comments

[sgsabbage]

Thank you for saving me a read!

In the Panama Canal scenario are the people steering the boat also asleep?

[kaberett]

ONE CAN BUT PRESUME.

[legionseagle]

I'm fairly certain that the Marine Accident Investigation Branch won't be too happy about the somnambulant crew of the vessel going through Panama.

[davidgillon]

Especially considering the number of locks to be traversed - six, in three groups.

[legionseagle]

Plus, there's a mandatory requirement for a pilot, and I'm sure their job description includes not being asleep.

[alexseanchai]

...wow

[kaberett]

did I mention everyone's male apart from the token lady

no seriously there's like three token lady

... also the alien civilisation has oppositional sexual dimorphism and every single member of the group you meet is male

[alexseanchai]

...um

[sgsabbage]

Ah, the three token lady problem.

[kaberett]

... well played.

[sgsabbage]

*bows*

[syderia]

Thank you! So far I've only seen reviews from people who loved it and I quit around page 65 because I just didn't care. (Also because that what you thought was the fundamental law of physics doesn't seem to be true doesn't mean that physics don't exist.)

[kaberett]

Yeah I persevered because I felt I ~ought~ to but I'm not going to read the rest of the series. And yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. And, like, the author's afterword is this incredibly pompous thing about his ~rare ability~ to actually wrap his mind around both the very large and the very small scales? and I'm like... bro. bro no.

Wld be curious to have links to see what they got out of it that I didn't if you have them handy; but GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE.

[syderia]

I could find this one: http://www.liscareyslibrary.com/2015/06/the-three-body-problem-by-cixin-liu.html
I have the feeling that I saw more than one, but I couldn't find any other (I think I got them via File770 Puppy round-ups and I'm not quite up to go digging back in there).

[kaberett]

As in other hard sf novels, Liu is building an alien society for us, at least for the western reader, and I think it's well done. The reader may have to work a bit harder at getting the characters, but only because the cultural background and references--[t]he world building--are also requiring some mental work.

... n-ooooo this isn't in any meaningfully plausible sense "hard SF", and I'm preeeeeeeeeetty dubious about referring to the Chinese Cultural Revolution as an "alien society" (especially given how very thoroughly Ken Liu and Liu Cixin between author's and translator's notes made sure things down to the level of untranslatable puns in naming were explained). Like... no, it's not that I didn't work hard enough at the characters, it's that they're fundamentally unlikeable? I think I'd have more faith in that character assessment were it not for the fact that characters in The Goblin Emperor are described as having "depth and complexity" (no, they really don't).

Thanks for the link - interesting to read it, and I do not mean by grumbling about its contents here to indicate displeasure or what-have-you with you! Especially because I'd consider those plausible reviews if I hadn't actually read both the books in question...

[syderia]

Oh, I had missed their review of the Goblin Emperor!
Yeah, I liked it, and I think the part where Maia has to overcome his abusing childhood reflexes is interesting, but none of the characters were that complex (or even anything that what we saw them be on the first encounter.)

[batdina]

thank you kindly. :::crosses book off of to be read list:::

[kaberett]

*snort* would be fascinated to read more people going "... wait I don't get it" in the interests of feeling less of a bizarre outsider, but quite understand your position given the givens :-p

[starlady]

I hated this book so much I couldn't even finish it, which is a huge rarity for me. It's bad on so many different levels.

[kaberett]

AHAHAHAHA. Yeah I think I mostly kept reading in sort of... horrified fascination? to see if it would get better? and, I mean, the translation was nice! some of the tricks being done with mirroring texts were nice! ... yeah no.

[starlady]

With the large caveat that I haven't actually read the book in the original Mandarin, I had doubts about the translation choices, and a friend of mine (his post is linked at the bottom of that one) pointed out that Liu missed some serious Golden Age references.

[frith_in_thorns]

I found this book... really quite strange. I don't have much heavy physics knowledge, so (probably ironically) the pseudoscience was the part I actually enjoyed reading :P

But argh, the deathly boring POV guy, with his blink-and-you-miss them wife and kid (I was really startled when they were suddenly in his house, since there was nothing in the text up until then that made me think the guy had anyone to think about other than himself) and the stereotyped Asshole Maverick Cop really annoyed me. And then when he played the game in which he seemed not to do *anything*, but after one or two sessions apparently all the other players were talking about this ~new genius~? I finished it, but it was mostly just so boring.

[kaberett]

Yeah, I could see that the pseudoscience was presumably what attracted lay people to it, because... the characters were deathly dull??? the characters were almost none of them likable or interesting or empathisable-with? I just... didn't get it. I didn't get it. And yeah the game was really unclear as to whether it was an MMPORG or single-player, which annoyed me, and there were a bunch of other inconsistencies in world-building, and just... no. no.

[kaberett]

(I feel the need to note, extremely belatedly, that there's the obvious possible explanation for my strong dislike of all the characters, namely that it's down to cultural illiteracy on my part, as a component of and in addition to racism -- again, on my part. I don't think that's the majority of what's going on given Other Media I Enjoy, but nonetheless.)

[sashajwolf]

I stopped reading after the first chapter because it was more grim than I could cope with at the time. I'm glad to see I didn't miss much.

[shanaqui]

Whoa. I'd heard good things about that one!?

[kaberett]

idgi & would be fascinated to reread some of the good things about it because... yeah, idgi

[phi]

Haven't read the book, but Rush-that-speaks had a positive review of it. Of course, Rush's review is in the context of the Rabid Puppies business, but also, I've always known Rush to be a very thoughtful reviewer (even though I often disagree with them) who is not afraid to pan books that happen to be popular and/or politically important.

[kaberett]

Thank you loos for the pointer! I am mulling it over; it is nice and chewy.

[cadenzamuse]

Which year's Hugos is this from? (aka I know you can get a bundle of books and vote for Hugos if you work some money transaction magic, can you point me in the direction of doing that and/or tell me whether you find it worthwhile?)

[kaberett]

This year's! I absolutely without a shadow of a doubt found last year's worthwhile - it introduced me to an enormous pile of writing I absolutely adored, including John Chu's The Water That Falls On You From Nowhere, Ann Leckie, and Max Gladstone, and was for me a very interesting experience in terms of What Else Is Out There (I actually got a membership last year because WorldCon was local-to-me so I could attend). And even the books I didn't adore I quite enjoyed, by and large - I found A Stranger in Olondria and dry and tedious slog, but I did like Ramez Naam's stuff and might get around to reading the rest of it, even. And I greatly enjoyed the conversations about it!

This year is substantially less worth it than last IMO from that perspective because of the (Rabid/Sad) Puppies; of the three non-puppy Best Novel nominations, this one annoyed the shit out of me on a plot level, as did The Goblin Emperor (about which I might actually post); I adored Ancillary Sword but I already knew that and am super into reading meta and such on the topic (and you only get an excerpt in the Hugo packet and the whole thing is currently $4.99 on most of the internet at the moment, I am given to understand). I'm also not getting anything out of the Best New Author award because it turns out (I'm now 25% of the way through the second in the series) that I just really don't like Wesley Chu's writing on an awful lot of levels. But I bought a supporting membership this year so I'd get the books, and so I could vote in the Hugos and in site selection (we might get another European con sometime soon!)

[azurelunatic]

I have finally gotten around to reading this!

The Cultural Revolution section kicked off a weeping anxiety attack about [past trauma involving a more cavalier than necessary attitude towards death] so I had to stop for the night. I think that if I had not spent a summer around age 11 slogging through actual histories of the Cultural Revolution which were stuffed with men approximately that personally grim-dull and vicious, I would not have been able to enjoy this book. As it was, I did enjoy it.

I interpreted the "all sleeping" bit not as literally all, but enough of them horizontal to escape the attack and be potential survivors to have good odds of a somewhat coherent or at least effective resistance.

There were not enough women, and Ye Wenjie didn't get the chance to explore her growing tender feelings for that village woman.