Today seems like a good day to ask folk not to give people with "Fascists Welcome" doormats money

[kaberett]

... it being the UK release of Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Exhibit A: Nazi Captain America holding Thor's hammer, with an associated discussion of symbology, senior Marvel staff donations to the 45th US President's campaign, etc

Exhibit B: Marvel asking comic stores to change their logos to Hydra symbols and staff to wear Hydra t-shirts.


Like. Especially maybe don't give them opening-weekend money for this shit, please?

Comments

[cosmolinguist]

Can I share this?

[kaberett]

Yep.

[ghoti_mhic_uait]

I'd missed this; thank you for pointing it out.

[kaberett]

I actually wanted to see GotG2, so I'm Kind Of Irritated. >:(

[sebastienne]

So I've seen some commentary - I don't know how convincing you'd find it - along the lines of a general Marvel boycott being less productive than a specific boycott of the hateful stuff.

Annoyingly I can't find the post I saw now, but it included things like Agents of Shield being very explicit in repeatedly calling out the Trump administration, while certain comics titles and at least some of the upcoming films are groundbreaking in terms of diversity and representation (eg Thor: Ragnarok, Ms Marvel).

[kaberett]

I have a pretty bright line in the proverbial sand around giving money to people who are actively encouraging fascists by creating spaces for them and telling them they're welcome. I don't particularly care about whether they're also criticising them -- t'other post that's been doing the rounds of tumblr is the No Tolerance For Nazi Skins one, and that's rather closer to where I'm at. There's loads of potential to get media/social space/etc that doesn't harbour and encourage fascists; I'm much more comfortable sticking to that.

Other people get to draw lines in other places, but I do not find compelling the argument that people who are actively creating a welcoming space for Nazis get to be all "but it's okay we don't ACTUALLY think that" and have it stick when, fundamentally, they are still etc.

Other people get to draw lines in other places! This is where mine is. :-s

[shanaqui]

To me, the problem with boycotting Marvel as a whole at the moment is that they're moving in this direction because they think their readers have a problem with diversity. So boycotting titles like Ms Marvel, Captain Marvel, Thor, Sam Wilson as Cap, Black Panther, Silk, Kate Bishop as Hawkeye... it's just reinforcing those opinions (and potentially allowing them to cancel titles like Ms Marvel, putting writers like G. Willow Wilson out of a job).

(And then there's the fact that Chris Evans, for example, is vocally anti-fascist and using the heck out of his platform to make it very obvious. Though he at least has plenty of other gigs if Captain America somehow failed.)

I am extremely upset about what they've done to Steve Rogers and the Maximoff twins, so much so that I wish I could anti buy Nick Spencer's run on Cap, but... it also seems counterproductive to boycott Ms Marvel et al. Not an easy dilemma to solve.

[kaberett]

As I say, my line in the sand is where it is.

However, I think it's also worth noting that titles that actively promote and include diversity (which: yep, Ms Marvel, Sam Wilson as Cap) are arguably not the same as GotGv2, which... stars a kind of useless white dude and a raccoon who thinks nicking people's mobility aids is hilarious. I'm gonna be wary about people who are going for the nuance argument (one could... write to Marvel and say "I am explicitly not buying this long list of titles I'd like to while you are PROMOTING NAZISM" e.g.?), but I'm struggling to see a compelling argument for giving opening-weekend money to GotGv2 in the immediate aftermath of the Hydra bullshit on that basis.

[shanaqui]

Of course! Just... thinking around why I'm not sure about a complete boycott, even though a large part of me wants to.

And yeah, for sure, Lisa and I aren't going to see GotG2 either, which isn't too much of a hardship, and won't be seeing anything featuring Cap either until this is sorted, which is more of one given my... [Idon'tknowwhattocallit] thing about the MCU's Cap! I'm explicitly thinking about the comics I mentioned here (and others like them, e.g. the Avengers lineup that includes Billy Kaplan, although what they've done with his Romani-Jewish mother, goodness knows if they've left him alone).

[kaberett]

I hear you, and I know skipping out on the Cap is gonna be Hard for you ♥

(I'm... honestly mostly just relieved at this point that I consumed MCU canon for the purposes of better understanding your blue-eyed boys, rather than having an actual emotional investment in the canon itself.)

[ghoti_mhic_uait]

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking.

I bet they were going 'but people wear Darth Vader costumes for Star Wars!' without stopping to think (or listen) why it's not the same.

[haggis]

This Twitter thread from Alexandra Erin seems to be a reasonable explanation of what they thought they were doing and why they are sticking to it, despite numerous attempts to explain what the problem is.

https://twitter.com/alexandraerin/status/856336057096445952

I strongly agree with your proposed response although since I have used up all my interest in superhero media, I can't really boycott something I wasn't planning to spend money on.

[kaberett]

Thank you for the link!

[vass]

Good plan.

Anyone up for a recs thread of upcoming things to see instead?

[swingandswirl]

My interest in Marvel has been shrinking over the years, especially after the Dr. Strange and Iron Fist whitewashing fiascos and their continued shafting of their female characters, but I'd completely forgotten about GotG being one of their properties. That's one ticket I won't be buying, thanks for the reminder.

[kaberett]

Y'welcome.

[alatefeline]

Indeed.

[davidgillon]

*Headdesk*

I mean I've come to the conclusion that the entire MCU marketing model exists solely to derail strong character development, but the degree to which the Nazi-Cap storyline is tone deaf to Marvel's own origin story just beggars belief.

[cesy]

Drat, I hadn't thought through that connection before buying tickets. Argh. Thank you for pointing it out.

[alexseanchai]

*nod firmly*

[silveradept]

I'm still wondering how such a thing made it through and whose ears had to be closed to make it work. But yes, no Guardians on opening week - I have other movies to potentially go see.

[starlady]

Without disagreeing with your decision, the movies and the comics are now being run separately--they were all formerly run by the same comics people authorizing the Nazi shit (Pearlmutter), but are now separate under Kevin Feige. Boycotting the comics is the most effective way to boycott the Nazi shit.

[conuly]

Exhibit B: Marvel asking comic stores to change their logos to Hydra symbols and staff to wear Hydra t-shirts.

*wince*