can we please just ban smoking in public already

[kaberett]

Smoke exposure on my way into work again. It hurts to breathe again. It has been the case, two days running, that the people I've asked to kindly consider not smoking at the top of the ramp into the building, within 5m of the building entrance, have looked baffled and disgusted at me and not even bothered to make a verbal response, so that was a load of exposing myself further for precisely 0 gain.

Which means I am getting around to typing up this rant.

If you smoke in public, you are the reason I can't leave the house safely, where by "safely" I mean "without ending up coughing and wincing with every single breath for a week".

Here is a partial list of things that prompt me to alter my breathing patterns in public, just in case, because I can't really afford to be incautious:

• people standing at bus stops
  
• people standing outside tube stations
  
• people standing near building entrances
  
• people sitting at tables outside cafes
  
• people waiting at pedestrian crossings
  
• wind (because it means I need to be further away from any smokers to be safe)
  
• absence of wind (because it means that smoke doesn't disperse as rapidly)
  
• people getting their phones out of their pocket
  
• people getting anything out of their pocket
  
• people using their phones while walking
  
• people gesturing while talking to friends
  
• people walking abreast across a pavement
  
• et fucking cetera

If you smoke near building entrances, you're the reason I can't safely walk down the street or get into work. If you smoke near bus stops or stations, you're the reason I can't safely use public transport. If you smoke in public parks or while walking between destinations, you are the reason I can't safely use or occupy those spaces. If you smoke in public but only when you're not around me you are still the goddamn problem, and I shouldn't have to spell out why for you. If you smoke in public, you are the fucking reason I can't leave the house or even open windows safely, and I hope you feel fucking awful about it.

Comments

[silverhare]

I would suggest you send this excellent angry missive to that guy who was being a "But what about the me! How dare you be angry at me for impacting your right to breathe?" on your recent FB post on the matter. But I don't think he would realise, so.

*offers love*

[kaberett]

looooooooool yeah

(woz in fact a mate's FB status and I was grimly delighted that when I posted an abridged version of this the conversation with smokers ~~~justifying their right to poison people~~~ mysteriously stopped dead)

[silverhare]

I did just go to look for it, and then realised I has perhaps mixed you up with Hel again. Actually, I know lots of people who are massively impacted by other people smoking...

[kaberett]

well we are creepy evil twins ;)

[damerell]

I'll make you a deal; I'll shoot all public smokers if you shoot all public drivers.

[starlady]

It's legal to smoke near building entrances in the UK?

[kaberett]

NOT WITHIN FIVE METRES IT ISN'T

NOT THAT ANYBODY FUCKING PAYS ANY ATTENTION

"but Alex," you might say, "there are so many building entrances that the only way someone could manage that is by standing in the middle of the road!" WORKS FOR ME.

[starlady]

I'm so confused. It's illegal but everybody ignores it? How does that work?

In the blue states in the States they've adopted little signs pointing out the legal perimeter, and the dwindling population of smokers huddles just beyond them, looking miserable and oppressed.

[davidgillon]

It's illegal but everybody ignores it? How does that work?

The UK has a bad habit of passing laws and not enforcing them.*

Disability access laws are a good example, you have to make 'reasonable adjustments' to allow disabled people to access your services, but if you don't, no one from government will make you. The enforcement is left to some poor crip finding the resources, physical, emotional, and financial, to sue in civil court. You would almost think it had been deliberately designed to ensure that nothing changed....


*There are lots of urban myths about unenforced laws allegedly still on the Statute Book, such as all males being required to practise archery every Sunday.

[spaceoperadiva]

"there are so many building entrances that the only way someone could manage that is by standing in the middle of the road!" WORKS FOR ME.

Preach it!

Really, sometimes I think I should take up underwater swimming just to improve my breath-holding skills. Sometimes even holding my breath and dashing through the cloud of smoke doesn't work, because the smoke clings to my clothes and hair and triggers my asthma anyhow even when I'm past what should be the danger zone.

[kaberett]

Yes, precisely. :-( (I find that being a brass player and singer helps with the breath-holding thing. It turns out I am very good at judging very finely how long I can hold my breath while moving rapidly before passing out.)

[syntaxofthings]

"but Alex," you might say, "there are so many building entrances that the only way someone could manage that is by standing in the middle of the road!" WORKS FOR ME.

I'm good with that too!

[legionseagle]

I'm having difficulty finding authority for the five metres rule (in the UK, that is); could you assist me with a citation, please?

[(Anonymous)]

I have also looked and not found this. However, many universities, including A's, have this as policy for their buildings.

[highlyeccentric]

I have no citation, not being from the UK, but I think it may apply only to certain *kinds* of buildings? NSW adopted a policy in that vein - any government-owned building or anything used for a state service-delivery purpose, I think, has a perimiter, but not private premises.

[kaberett]

Hmm. It's a thing I'd been told but now you mention it I can't actually find it; will dig more ~in the future~.

[stephdairy]

I believe there was a desire expressed by Government to extend the no smoking provisions of the Health Act 2006 to the areas near building entrances, but it never became law.

(S)

[cosmolinguist]

Nope. But it happens. When they banned smoking in public buildings a few years ago, all the smokers seemed to move to as-little-outside-as-they-can-get, hovering just outside the doors. (I don't have as severe issues with smoke exposure as kaberett does, but they're enough that they can fuck up my ability to see for the rest of the day, so I do tend to notice things like this!)

[ghoti]

this /sucks/. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

[korafox]

THIS, A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

My sensitivity isn't even anywhere near yours, though I've lost any resistance I had to cigarette smoke since my state (US person here) went smoke "free" a decade or so ago. But I can still tell the moment someone lights up outside at work, while I'm sitting in a second story room with the windows closed. I would prefer not having to fight against coughing a lung up while I'm on the clock, thanks.

And I don't even want to get started on the people who smoke inside my apartment building. Yeah, I know it's the frozen depths of winter outside, but the landlord has rules against this for a reason. If I knew who it was, I would report them, but there's no way to tell.

[alexseanchai]

Gyaaaaaah.

[mirrorshard]

So incredibly much this.

[(Anonymous)]

I recommend photographing them, very obviously, from a safe distance. (Sidheag)

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

I've done that. Even when they're sat right underneath the no smoking sign, they still don't look embarrased or stop or move or react at all, for me. And it does rather take spoons as well :(

[sidheag.livejournal.com]

The time I did it when it did seem to be effective was when someone was smoking in a (mostly enclosed) busstop. I asked him to stop, telling him it was illegal (the no-smoking sign might have been a clue!). He told me, err, to go away. I walked a few metres away and got out the camera and photographed him. He stopped.

I can easily believe it doesn't always work, and I absolutely hear you about the spoons. But if it's university employees smoking outside a university building against university policy, emailing the photos up the management chain might well have an effect. Assuming not too many managers are as prosopagnosic as me :-)

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.

[syntaxofthings]

if you smell like smoke and sit next to me on the bus, you can bet your ass I hate you right now. *sigh* and I'm the one considered "rude" for covering my face up when you're near.

[highlyeccentric]

You'd like my old uni. They have a fairly discrete campus (as in, there's a wedge of land with nothing but uni buildings / parks / facilities on it) and in 2010 put in a rule that instead of having designated no-smoking zones there would be a handful of designated *smoking* zones and the rest of the uni is smoke-free. Actual obedience to this rule varies - people smoke on lawns that are not the official smoking lawn - but generally paths and forecourts are safe.

[kaberett]

this is in theory the case at my university too; nobody fucking does the thing. and when there was an attempt to make the whole campus smoke-free ~PEOPLE ROSE UP IN PROTEST~ TO... defend their ~right~ to poison their colleagues. BASTARDS.

[highlyeccentric]

This is not uncommon. And really the only solution to your problem is for no one to smoke - given it is pretty unacceptable to smoke in most buildings, if it is *also* off-limits to smoke in the public outdoors, that leaves very few places at all. Which would be great for many not-smoking people, but smokers *are* addicts and are not going to be happy about any proposals further in that direction...

[kaberett]

Oddly enough I find that I don't actually care particularly about this. Or, you know, Switzerland is pretty decent at providing people places to use drugs that minimise the impact on everybody the fuck else, I don't see why the UK can't adopt a similarly enlightened approach, etc etc. Or they could get their hit some way that doesn't involve POISONING EVERYONE AROUND THEM, because, like, it's not like there's a shortage of those.

[highlyeccentric]

Sorry, I'm missing chunks of logic there. I don't mean that this should reduce your problem, because it clearly doesn't.

But I'd jumped to 'how would this be achievable' and from that perspective *someone* needs to care about why the pushback happens. (It is probably not because of a well-articulated belief in one's right to harm others; rather an entrenched but dysfunctional belief that one is only causing real harm to oneself and is being punished for chosing to do so.) And I'm pretty sure that the reason USyd's managed to get a reasonably effective smoke-free campus policy including outdoor spaces is that this was only a small step beyond their existing enforcement. If your uni doesn't enforce 'keep away from doors' then 'no smoking on campus at all anywhere' is not going to be implementable.

Switzerland is pretty decent at providing people places to use drugs that minimise the impact on everybody the fuck else, I don't see why the UK can't adopt a similarly enlightened approach, etc etc.

Not when the drugs are cigarettes they aren't. Geneva at least has no leave-access-routes-free policies, no restrictions on stations & bus stops, nor any outside dining spaces that are smoke-free. My uni here is *just about* managing to keep people from smoking in buildings. Maybe.

[birke]

Nicotine patch?

[silveradept]

Ugh. Would that someone could simply sound a klaxon and have a citation print automatically or be mailed to their space. There are certainly enough cameras to capture the evidence.

[tree]

co-signed.

i was so, so delighted when our local council passed a motion to make smoking at bus stops/shelters and outdoor dining areas illegal. not that it has eliminated every public smoker by a long shot, but there has been a huge decrease in choking and coughing for me, and i no longer have to hold my breath when walking past restaurants.

the downside is that it's that much more noticeable that when i leave the confines of our council area i am constantly unable to breathe.

[barakta]

Oh so very this! Work at a university, walking into work in the morning is often in a crowd (a whole challenge to stay upright in itself) and if some git is smoking in that crowd and I can't see them I can't breathe and am clogging up but CAN'T escape... I have long term ENT issues which Do Not Need Triggering kthx. I'd happily make all of campus bar some smoking huts non smoking! I wish the whole world was "smoking only in the designated smoker pits"...

And grr yes to the non enforcement of smoking near buildings, drives me potty that no one cares...

I would be less harmed by someone slapping me in the face...

[untonuggan]

Yes.