so denise gave a talk

[kaberett]

[Content note for social manipulation; mostly I'm talking about Harry Potter, but.]

Slytherin 101: How To Win Friends & Influence People (also at the OSBridge page, with wiki of people's notes).

One of the things D asked early on was how many people in the room identified with each Hogwarts house, and was a bit wry about the number of people at a tech conference who identify with Ravenclaw; hence I have been thinking, and it goes a bit like this:

Yes, Ravenclaw are entroped as ~the smart ones~, but that's not why it's where I identify, I don't think. I don't think I'm actually Slytherin: yes, I can tweak social interactions to go the way I want, but I think I'm more uncomfortable with it - and definitely more uncomfortable with power - than is consistent. Hufflepuff? No, I'm only that unshakably loyal to clan, and even then think I'm really too self-serving and too prone to give up to be sorted here. Gryffindor? I know that a definition of brave is being scared of things and doing them anyway, but courage still doesn't - to me - feel like a defining feature. Whereas asking why, and questioning, and getting caught up in details and pattern-matching and so on... well, I'm a postgrad student, and I'm staying this way at least in part because of the access it gives me to academic journals, enabling me to read current research outside my field. I think I can identify with Ravenclaw without thinking that people are stupid, and I think I can identify with Ravenclaw while recognising that excelling within the very narrow confines of the academy (1) isn't in any useful sense the only and is by no means the best way to excel and (2) in a great many respects isn't actually useful.

Of course, it's easy for me to say "being good at book-learning" is a value-neutral trait, because while it's one I have it's also one that is in general disproportionately valued and respected by my cultures (for all that some of the bullying I dealt with makes it hard for me to write that).

Identity is haaard.

Comments

[recessional]

I identify as a Ravenclaw because my automatic response to "which trait do you value most?" is "in what context? What are the parameters of the situation? what am I trying to achieve? Also define the word 'value' so I know we're talking about the same thing. Also also define 'most'."

Whereas while I can absolutely run with any of the supposedly-defining-characteristics of the other houses (I can actually out-Slyther many of my entirely Slytherin friends, I'm loyal to my actual personal detriment in many cases and I can be stupidly chivalrous at the wrong point), none of them are that automatic, that reflexive a response to the world.

I mean, I almost literally couldn't finish the sorting test on Pottermore because the questions were too general and lacked sufficient specific detail for me to feel comfortable giving any kind of answer. The first time I took the Depression Inventory I had to ask for clarifying details on every single question. :P

And because, in terms of the cliff, getting a damn flying carpet seems like only common sense why would you not do that.

[kaberett]

Yessss re the clarifying questions about questions; I have more-or-less trained myself to take a reasonable guess at what the person asking the question is most likely to want to know and answering according to that (rather than to what they actually asked), but I have (had) immense difficulty (in the past) with people saying "JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION" when I literally can't without knowing why they're asking because how the hell else am I supposed to provide the information that they actually want.

Under-specified problems are the worst.

[recessional]

Yeah these days I can sort of profile the asker/situation and make a guess, but I still kind of resent it and would prefer to be able to ask for specifics in cases where deviation makes a substantial difference. (Like one of the questions was whether I'd save a notebook with Merlin's seal, a cure for dragon-pox, etc, etc, I can't remember the other two but they were similar and I literally stared at it. I mean I was pretty sure the "Ravenclaw" answer was the Merlin-book but dude I AM A MEDIAEVALIST HALF THE THINGS UNDER ANY FAMOUS PERSON'S NAME ARE FORGERIES and what the hell do I need a forgery for? And how severe is dragon-pox and how hard would the cure be to replicate? Like seriously these are things that a. I would know if I were witch!M, and b. are important and make a huge difference!)

Look guys good intelligence is the soul and centre of any successful operation. You need many many other things afterwards to make it work, but if you just go off with bad intel the enemy might not even be there or you might get shelled to death pointlessly, and then where is all your courage, persistence and manipulation going to get you? Nowhere, that's where. NOW LET'S ARRANGE FOR PROPER INTEL.

/dork

[shehasathree]

The first time I took the Depression Inventory I had to ask for clarifying details on every single question. :P


Hah, yes.

[deathbyshinies]

getting a damn flying carpet seems like only common sense why would you not do that.

Because carving the stairs takes ages, but then anybody else who comes along after you can get down safely too :P

The fact that that answer was the first thing to pop into my head demonstrates why I am a Hufflepuff, despite giving most people who know me the impression of slightly cranky Ravenclaw most of the time.

On the other hand,

I almost literally couldn't finish the sorting test on Pottermore because the questions were too general and lacked sufficient specific detail for me to feel comfortable giving any kind of answer

makes perfect sense to me! I often think there should be a 'Read More' or 'Further details' option on quiz questions like that.

[silveradept]

I always loved at the simplified typography people take out of the Sorting Hat a bit askance. According to the various songs sung, it seems like the vaunted traits of each house are not just "brave, smart, loyal, ambitious" but "determined, wise, empathetic, charismatic", which puts a different spin on all of it.

Which is to say that yes, that's Slytherin 101, and yes, you're a Ravenclaw because you want details to make a wise decision, not because you have any obsessive need for minutia or book-learning. But I always have trouble accepting Hufflepuff as just "all the rest", perhaps because I keep getting sorted there.

I did think the same way as deathbyshinies with one additional thought - the Hufflepuff grabs five hundred friends because they know that the work of a lifetime, like making the stairs, can be knocked out in a day if you get enough people together.

Although they may use the networks of Slytherins and Gryffindors they have, as well as other Hufflepuffs, to get the number of people they want.

[recessional]

Because carving the stairs takes ages, but then anybody else who comes along after you can get down safely too :P

Depending on the situation, that may be considerably more of a bug than a feature. *solemn*

(Which is to say actually, there's not enough information for THAT scenario either: why am I on this cliff? Who put me there? Why do I want to get down? DO I want to get down? What are the pros and cons of providing a method of descent for anyone who comes behind me? Etc.)

[kareila]

Here's another data point that might be of interest:

When I was betaing D's talk the night before, I did the "eh" half-hand-shake on both Gryffindor and Ravenclaw. (This is right before we all pointed at D when she asked for Slytherins and she promptly joke-fired us all.)

But when I was in the audience at the final presentation, and NO ONE ELSE IN THE ROOM raised their hand for Gryffindor, I threw myself on the grenade, at which point D said something gratifyingly complementary.

So yeah, the more I do things for DW, the more my self-identification shifts from Ravenclaw to Gryffindor. Or something.

(Ironic icon is ironic.)

[cadenzamuse]

This exactly. *Hufflepuff fistbump*