Working out my gender

[kaberett]

I didn't really understand or like or have any interest in clothes until I realised that I wasn't female.

I've got very clear memories of my siblings - both male-identified, as far as I know - saying they were going to be women when they grew up; I don't remember saying anything similar myself. (I also remember a family friend saying something similar. She was right.)

But I didn't know that was a thing that could be true until my early teens. I already knew I was queer; I started playing with the idea that maybe I was a dude. I definitely had days where I felt a lot like a dude, but they weren't common, and in general, that felt wrong, too.

In sixth form, a friend said - on my having dressed up a bit - "... no, but you see, there is masculine, and there is feminine, and then there is [you], and it's REALLY DISTURBING when you cross over into either," which... was way more accurate than I realised at the time; I mean, I was just pretty chuffed.

Somewhere in there, I found out that non-binary was a term and genderqueer folk exist, and I started thinking really hard about myself. Almost exactly five years ago, I started binding regularly. Four years ago, I decided was genderqueer but couldn't face social transition; but I started thinking about handles, and changed my name online from something derived from my given name to... well, something still derived from my wallet name, but derived in a way of my choosing, without gender (and in fact in the German it's nodding to is neuter). Three years ago, I took a very deep breath and decided I was going to change my wallet name, and I asked people to change what they called me, and then, oh then, I began to realise that actually, I like clothes and I like dressing up and I like presenting femme and I like cufflinks and I like jewelry and perfume and make-up and drag, and it was glorious.

Which is a very bare-bones accounting: for all that it says that genderqueer felt right, that's oversimplified and doesn't explain what wrong means.

So: progesterone makes me really obviously really ill. Really, really ill. When I was nine I stood and stared at myself in the mirror and thought, I need to remember what this looks like because soon I won't be flat-chested any more. And my chest -- well, okay, look, I am seriously a dead ringer for Botticelli's Birth of Venus, like, partners have been really weirded out by how easily that could be a painting of me. (Occasionally I will turn a particular way when getting dressed around That One Lady, and she will darkly mutter down to the nipple placement..) So: a body type considered objectively attractive and praiseworthy, and one I am eminently capable of finding attractive, it just doesn't belong on me. My proprioception is wrong for it - there are some things I can't do, or can do only with revulsion, because of how they cause parts of my body that Shouldn't Be to move. The physical dysphoria is, for me, a pervasive low-level unease, a something is wrong: my body is in the uncanny valley relative to my bone-deep sense of what it should be, and it is only my chest that causes this, not any of the disability or whatever. (Well, and sometimes my face and my voice, but those I am learning to make peace with in a way that I am not so much with my chest, because anything else would be more wrong.)

There's social stuff too, of course - the delicate duality whereby misogyny is wrong, evidently and clearly, but there is additional grating unease when I experience it arising from you're treating me in a way congruent with your perceiving me as a woman, distinct from the way you are treating me is wrong because politics and humanity.

Somehow, though, I appear to have muddled through. As I say above, "genderqueer" isn't actually quite right, but it's the best term I've got so far: and so perhaps in time it's home to strength I'll come.

By all means ask me questions - I am happy to educate in this specific instance, for people I already know - but be aware that this doesn't necessarily mean I'll answer all questions about my life, because - personal, and so on.

Comments

[batdina]

I'm going to be back when I have more than five minutes to spend on line. But I had to drop by to say that this:

In sixth form, a friend said - on my having dressed up a bit - "... no, but you see, there is masculine, and there is feminine, and then there is [you], and it's REALLY DISTURBING when you cross over into either," which... was way more accurate than I realised at the time; I mean, I was just pretty chuffed.

Is the closest to describing my own sense of myself as I've ever read.

I identify as genderqueer; but really I'm a neither/nor.

[kaberett]

Yesssssss. I am so glad to have made some space for you.

[batdina]

(A long time ago, I remember standing on a muni light rail train in SF and having someone tell their child to say "excuse me to the man". I can recreate the feeling of "yes!" in my head like *that* whenever I need it.)

I'm in the last stages of completing Rabbinical School (just so you know). I tried to go when they weren't accepting women yet, and I tried again when women were okay but queers were not. So getting this far, even though I'm in my fifties feels like a miracle.

Anyway, my final project (called a teshuvah) is on the status of trans*, specifically in relationship to marriage, but also, generally: what does a person have to do under Jewish law to legally be a gender other than the one he/she was tagged with at birth?

Everyone is kind of surprised that this is what I chose to write. They don't see me when they look at me. What they see is a 52 year old woman with hip length hair and large boobs, and they don't get it. Because when I look in the mirror what I see is someone of completely indeterminate gender status. I have had it in for my breasts from the moment they appeared; I never wear dresses/skirts unless I'm trying to hide something from someone, and when I'm told to dress "up", I put on a tux.

But I've never had a name for what I feel or what I think I am so I wander around the edges of the genderqueer universe and try not to piss anyone off and it's only in the last few months that I've started trying to articulate what my gender might be. Writing the big teshuvah has actually been a great way to start articulating it, but I have a feeling it's going to take me years to figure it all out, even a tiny little bit.

Thank you for letting me work out a small bit of it here with you.

[redbird]

Pronoun question: is zie/zir okay, or is that too close to the German "sie" for comfort?

[kaberett]

Too close to the German - it's the only way I've ever found of getting anglophones to pronounce German "s" correctly...! Spivak, phe/per/etc, they all fine.

[redbird]

I will stick to they/them/their when referring to you, then.

[kaberett]

Thank you :-)

ETA having said which, I only really twitch about zie & variants when I come across them - if you have need/desire/etc to refer to me in e.g. offline conversations I'm not part of, then "zie" is fine because I will *enver hear about it* so won't have to do the double-take myself. So! There is a thing.

[redbird]

Thanks. That makes sense. On the other hand, if I at least try to remember that your preferred pronoun is "they," it means less risk of using the wrong one someplace online you might see it. So, worth doing, but not worth fretting over.

Poss TW, gender-related (nonsexual) abuse

[raze]

I don't really have anything intelligent to say here, just that I appreciate the posts you make exploring gender and being open about your experience as a genderqueer person. The household I was raised in was so incredibly negative about anything that wasn't cis-gender, to the point that my parents once took my entire wardrobe, disposed of it, bought me "girly" clothes, and aggressively insisted I look and act female - right down to criticizing the way I walked and sat. It was very damaging, so being able to read about people who are also genderqueer is comforting, especially when it comes to individuals like yourself who are both capable of articulating the discomfort and pain of not being what you need to be physically, but who also feel comfortable expressing their gender in everyday life.

Re: Poss TW, gender-related (nonsexual) abuse

[kaberett]

<333

I - am so glad I am able to be here, and since I can and since it is safe I think that talking about it is the least I can do.

[worlds_of_smoke]

*

[highlyeccentric]

This was interesting, thank you!

[pretty_panther]

Thank you for sharing your experiences. Very interesting read. :)

[hairyears]

thank you: more Useful knowledge.

Genderqueer is the next societal step after acceptance of gay people - which seems to have happened, wherever it's happened, as a reinforcement of gender binaries: "here's two nice new sparkly boxes called 'gay man' and 'gay woman', aren't we all WONDERFULLY tolerant!"

...So all information, narrative, comments and first-person POV to the contrary is valuable.

[shanaqui]

So: a body type considered objectively attractive and praiseworthy, and one I am eminently capable of finding attractive, it just doesn't belong on me.

! I hear you.

[kaberett]

That One Lady has told me she would quite like to draw me as Botticelli's Venus... once I've had top surgery. ♥_♥, etc etc etc!

I think - it's actually really very similar to other body dysmorphias/dysphorias? Like there is the otherworld acquaintance with four arms, and when he is fronting the body moves so differently, and you can see ŧhe negative space where his other two arms should be. And - there are the wolf-friends, who sit on their haunches at table and lay one paw alongside the plate as if holding down the thing they're eating, while the other one flops around looking confused about why it's holding a fork, and - knowing that other people can similarly see that my body is the wrong shape for me is a really big deal, you know?

[sorrillia]

Sorry for the really late reply: I hope you'll see it anyway.

I'm a bit surprised to find out that people have enough of a recognition for body shapes, or breast shapes, to think that someone's body looks particularly like a given painting.

Also, are you considering having top surgery, or is she just talking about drawing a hypothetical you who has? (For some reason I'd thought you'd indicated you weren't.) If you are, good luck!

[kaberett]

I get comments e-mailed to me :-)

I have been attempting to get top surgey for most of the past three years. If I'm really lucky it'll happen before the end of 2014. The issue is fucking gatekeeping fucking medical bullshit.

[sorrillia]

Ah. Good luck! Sorry for being confused.

[khronos_keeper]

I love these December days posts, because I feel like I'm learning so much about you, what's important to you, what makes you think, what you love.

I identify with a lot of what you're talking about, with the gender discontinuity offered by most of society, and I love reading your take on it all.

[kaberett]

<3! I am so so glad you are finding them interesting/informative. I'm trying to reassure myself that I'm definitely being of interest to at least the person who asked me to write the thing, but - yeah, matters a lot to me that other people are getting stuff out of it too :-)

[elialshadowpine]

"There's social stuff too, of course - the delicate duality whereby misogyny is wrong, evidently and clearly, but there is additional grating unease when I experience it arising from you're treating me in a way congruent with your perceiving me as a woman, distinct from the way you are treating me is wrong because politics and humanity."

Wow, this sounds familiar. I've talked some about my dad raising me essentially as male because he wanted a son, not a daughter. I have reactions that are, the way you're treating me is not okay because it's not okay to treat ANYONE that way (social/political) and then the, wait why the fuck are you considering me this way? feelings. Made all the more complicated because I really don't know if that's actually how I feel about my gender or if it's an ingrained reaction because of how I was raised; at this point, I haven't yet figured that out.

But you're the only person who's really described that feeling. I thought I was alone there.

[kaberett]

I... suspect it's quite difficult to put into words in a way that doesn't come off like "but I'm not like those OTHER members of $oppressed_group, I'm $one_of_the_guys! I'm TOO COOL AND SPECIAL to get this treatment", and tbh I am not sure I managed here, but it's a definite experience I *have* and if I don't try I can't get called on it and can't make it better, you know? And also: you are not alone.

[elialshadowpine]

Yessss. That is something I worry about too. I don't want to come across like "but I'm not like THEM" because that's totally not it. It just is like, hm, "Wait, what? I'm female? Why are you thinking this? Huh?" is my initial reaction, close as I can describe it. It's confusion, more than anything else. And I suspect it'll be something that'll take me awhile to figure out, because it's only recently that I actually realized that's what my dad was doing, and why I have had so many different reactions than most cis women. I need to see a therapist for many reasons, but it makes me wonder if I oughtn't see about a trans* friendly therapist in particular.

Augh, posted too soon. And I wanted to thank you for the reminder. It is helpful to feel not alone. :)