The Stupidest Facebook Argument

[kaberett]

Inciting article: A Geologist Found The Oldest Water On Earth, And Then She Tasted It (which links on to the Nature article).

The actual story is (1) super cool and (2) almost completely irrelevant to The Argument, which began with someone asserting -- apparently seriously -- that all water is the same age. An attempt (by someone else) to explain that chemical reactions happen was met with an assertion that water changes from gas to liquid to solid and back again but is still, fundamentally, water, and also The Second Law Of Thermodynamics.

I could not quite convince myself to sit on my hands. I explained, in brief, that photosynthesis. The response: that water is still in the cell walls of the plant after photosynthesis.

I do not think "No. That's different water." is the most compelling scientific explanation I have ever given, but it is the one (I elaborated on it a little more) that I could bring myself to actually type. If there has been further activity in the thread then the hellsite (not affectionate) has not deemed fit to tell me about it and I have chosen not to go looking.

I am torn between horrified fascination and the fervent hope that this was trolling.

Comments

[davidgillon]

Wow! I'd have gone with burning hydrogen rather than photosynthesis, but wow.

[ewt]

What.

I could charitably think they are confusing the age of water with the age or existence of matter. Like, the stuff that makes up water continues existing even when it isn't water any more. The protons and electrons and stuff don't just go away. But calling that "still water" is like saying that a fully composted apple is "still an apple" -- no, it isn't, by any sensible definition of apple-ness. And in a closed loop system where we feed composted apples to the apple tree and it makes more apples, they aren't "the same apple" either.

(And also this is a terrible idea, to maintain tree health we'd want to also compost leaves and branches, and with a hypothetical closed-matter system with a perfect tree and perfect nutrient cycling that still wouldn't even allow us to eat the apples without eventually affecting tree health, and it's easier to go "compost everything and put the compost everywhere" than "apple tree gets apple compost plus whatever minerals and water and carbon we've removed in the apples we ate" but that might be a tad complex for this discussion and also speaking of apples I am looking forward to apples and other fruits and accordingly have purchased a scrumping attachment to stick onto the end of my longest hazel pole at the Far Allotment, feel free to borrow it once all assembled. Might switch to a Wolfgarten extensible pole and scrumping attachment, because I think they also do a pruning saw attachment, and there's a garden centre in Crews Hill that stocks a bunch of their stuff. But I haven't decided between that brand and Gardena if I want a hardware lock-in for interchangeable handled tools. Gardena seems to use more plastic but also looks like an attachment system it would be easier to recreate with materials I can actually purchase, which would give the hypothetical ability to attach *any* tool...We'll see.)

[shanaqui]

...Sounds like they are confused about the differences between molecules and atoms, and have forgotten that water is not made up of a single atom and is further divisible? Which is a confusion I have known non-scientists have because they think water is surely the most basic thing in the world.

[simont]

I mean it's an element and everything :-)

(Though this argument probably doesn't hold up for the other classical Greek element-oids. Even someone who thinks water is so basic that it never appears or disappears would have a hard time holding the same belief about fire...)

[ewx]

Oxygen formation in stars (or any other process, but I think it's mostly stars) seems relevant too, presumably the age of oxygen atoms in different water molecules can vary widely?

[redsixwing]

That is a really cool story! I'm somehow delighted by the idea of subterranean saltwater older than humans.

I kinda hope they learned something, whether trolling or not. Sheesh.

For whom the Bell Trolls

[hairyears]

It could be trolling, but...

Never, never go trolling: the Clankies are a terrible warning to us all.

That, and a troll who might just be personally known to me who goaded victorious creationists into pursuing the next level and pushing back the counterbiblical heresy of the so-called 'Heliocentric' universe.

Trolls! Be careful what you wish for.

[silveradept]

What? This is something I don't understand well enough to even try to understand how someone could get it that far wrong. I don't...what? Were they also arguing that all water is exactly the same in composition at all points in the universe?

[sfred]

:-o