[SW:TFA] okay no I actually can't with this

[kaberett]

It is an article entitled Rey is not a role model for little girls. By a man. (That turns out to contain oblivious cissexism too, hurrah.)

The first sentence is I hate to break it to you, but Rey is not a role model for little girls.

And I just. I just can't. At this dude. Declaring that this female protagonist is not a role model for girls and women she is a role model for men.

I get the point he is trying to make: really, I do. It's just that the flavour of entitled it takes to look at Rey, and ignore shit like this, and assert that there aren't girls and women desperately, desperately thirsty for this kind of hero... and tell them that she's not for them, she's for men.

Just... wow.

Comments

[kaberett]

I am just so fucking done with the idea that Representation is more important as a Learning Experience for the privileged out-group than it is for the people who've spent their lives being told they can't be that.

we've got a female lead

please can we maybe not act like the most important thing about her is what men think of her

[alexseanchai]

Cosigned.

[redsixwing]

Yes that.

>.<

[aella_irene]

Yes

[cadenzamuse]

SRSLY

[jelazakazone]

+1. We all need Rey, girls especially.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on Jaden Smith modeling women's clothing for Louis Vuitton.

[redsixwing]

Jaden Smith modeling women's clothing for Louis Vuitton

*screeches to a halt* wait what

[jelazakazone]

Yep. Read about here.

[redsixwing]

Thank you! :D

[jelazakazone]

You're welcome! Happy to hear your thoughts about it too.

[redsixwing]

Well... on the one hand?
My first reaction is: awesome! Because I am a person whose gender is kind of weird and doesn't fit easily and this makes me happy. (Also colored by the fact that my first exposure to Jaden, I totally misread him as a girl - and got my socks rocked by the thought that the next Karate Kid was going to be a black girl. Pretty awesome that he was, in fact, a black boy, too!)

On the other, given context of this entry: there's a bit of "you gotta?" in there, too. I know cis women who wear a lot of skirts to go directly with a very feminine self-expression, and who would probably look askance at this pretty hard, in the same sense that our host is looking askance at the guy trying to make Rey into a boys-only hero. (Which, no.)

So, ambivalent?

[davidgillon]

Also colored by the fact that my first exposure to Jaden, I totally misread him as a girl - and got my socks rocked by the thought that the next Karate Kid was going to be a black girl.

Oh, so that wasn't just me!

[redsixwing]

Nope! :D

[kaberett]

0. People shouldn't have to out themselves in order to do shit that makes them comfortable. (cf Andreja Pejic)

1. The fashion industry isn't really for women regardless but also it's not... exactly my area of expertise.

2. Good for Jaden and good for Louis Vuitton for normalising the concept of "men" wearing "women's clothing", and broadening the permissible ranges of gender expression.

-- approximately.

[umadoshi]

YES THIS. Aaaargh!

[dynamite_lady]

This.

[carthaginians]

COSIGNED.

[ceb]

Good grief, what a massive wanker.

[silveradept]

...since when is role modeling a zero-sum game?

[pipisafoat]

seriously! why can't she be a role model for everyone?

OH NO WAIT I KNOW WHY. SOME WHITE DUDEBRO MANSPLAINED IT TO ME ONCE. see MEN and BOYS can be role models for everyone, but women can only be role models for other women. Also, queer folk can only be role models for other queer folk, which means that lesbians can only be role models for other lesbians. Oh, and if you're not a binary gender, you don't get role models. It's not allowed.
(seriously I have had that spelled out explicitly for me before. what the everloving fuck. also? fuck the mansplainer; I'll just be my own goddamn role model.)


I do agree with the author of the article that boys could benefit as described and she's not JUST a role model for girls, but for fuck's sake, don't say she's not a role model for girls.

(disclaimer: haven't seen the movie, may or may not eventually see it, did read most of the article but got to skimming part way through and may have missed something because of it.)

[silveradept]

It's the Korra problem again, isn't it? Because some dudebros think that if it can't appeal to boys and men, it must be worthless, but that if it does appeal to boys and men, then women can't have it.

[ludy]

This so much.

Right now i'm very interested in how boys respond to strong female role midels because #1 and #2 (who are both boy-shaped and #2 is extremely boy-identified) are 7 and intrested in/vunerable to mainstream media. Currently, at age 3, #3 (girl-shape and moderately girl-identified) is less intrested in mainstream media but she will be ... and i'd hate to see the all-to-predictable pattern of her feistyness getting ground down as she ages.
When #2 was around 4 or 5 he started absorbing a kind of "folk" version of Star Wars in the playground. He knew from earlier on that "Darth Vader is Luke Sky Walker's daddy" but refused point-blank to believe that there was a princess in the story "Princesses live in castles - they do not live in space". Both he and #3 need to see strong women (well to start with just any women!) in space ... it's not either/or

(Disclaimer: i've not seen the film (yet) but like #2 i have absorbed the folk version of Star Wars)

[thefairymelusine]

argh at the 'do you think little girls and their friends don't already play games when they're the hero?' bit of the essay. Yes, I know they do, the problem is that they then hardly ever get that reflected back in media, and then it gradually... disappears, or they feel bad about that.

(I am excited to take my baby sister, who is now 20, to see TFA because even though she's not very into Star Wars, I suspect she will be into the existence of Rey)

And wow the cissexism in it, especially given the context of the 'these are role models for children' bits.

[vass]

It's not enough for him to claim Rey as a role model for men and boys, he has to also take her away from women and girls?

Did no one ever teach him how to share his toys as a child? Or how to share someone else's toys instead of snatching them and refusing to give them back?

[nanila]

I don't think I can bring myself to read the article.

But that Tumblr post/anecdote is a thing of beauty, thank you for that. <33333

[kaberett]

<3 glad that, at least, was good. Don't really recommend the article; I got it via Geek Feminism and was sufficiently annoyed by its well-meaning self-centering bullshit I needed a rant.

[dadcastellanos]

I had someone on the infamous book of faces post this a while ago & it still, still annoys me on a daily basis. uuuuugh.

[kaberett]

I spent some time working out if I could get from *... stare* to a coherent explanation of why it pisses me off so much; me_and got home while I was staring at my laptop screen and was treated to a rant on the subject, thereby helping crystallise it...

[dadcastellanos]

my first reaction was to try and like... make it work? like to try & understand where he's coming from & try to agree with it, but the longer I thought about it the angrier & angrier I got. it's like he's saying "yeah I know this is a great role model for women & that she's a competent character but WOMEN ALREADY KNOW THEY'RE GREAT SO SHE'S MORE FOR MEN THAN ANYTHING ELSE" and ????? how????? does that make sense to him???? "you know you're great so you don't get this role model?"

???? ?? ? ?????

[davidgillon]

Ugh, yet again I want to bang my collective gender's head off the nearest brick wall. And that's just from reading your post, I haven't seen TFA yet due to three weeks in the wilderness (literally, I just found out they filmed the new Beowulf just up the dale), and realistically I can't go to see TFA until I can manage five minutes without a coughing fit, so I'm still avoiding spoilers.

As for the Tumblr: OMG, so cute, and so right.