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[kaberett]

khronos_keeper is being excellent again, on the topic of (perceived) competencies and sick systems.

Comments

[sasha_feather]

I do wonder if there is something else we could call these besides "sick" systems. Abusive systems seems to be what I am getting from the term. khronos_keeper uses the word "vampiric".

The thing about "sick" is that is seems natural and accidental, rather than purposeful and unnatural.

[khronos_keeper]

I think I see what you mean. "Sick" seems to denote a level of victimhood on part of the afflicted system, when you (and my meta) is pointing toward concerted action of the system to milk a system member while preserving (or hoarding) as much resources as possible.

Unfortunately this is one of those questions that cannot be answered simply, and depends a lot on the system or subsystem in question. It also calls into question whether or not we can reliably create a universal model that marks system sickliness and victimhood or victimization, especially across cultures who have vastly different concepts of all of the above.

I mean, suffering and sacrifice by a discrete member in a system hasn't always been seen as negative. Whereas now in most modern cultures, consistently being drained by a system is seen as a bad thing, when in other times and other cultures being drained dry was a mark of a person with a good character.

I think it's a massively complicated question, and it would take a lot of discussion about what could really always be considered sick or vampiric.

Alex was very right in her link to throw in "perceived" copetencies, and I could add that to "perceived" sick systems, as not even every member in a system who sacrifices the same amount will have the same perspective of a system's vampirism, or of their own victimhood.

[sasha_feather]

You are right that it is very complex, and depends upon values of the society. Thanks for your thoughtful reply!

Recomment for context (as ninja edits happen bc I fail)

[khronos_keeper]

I think I see what you mean. "Sick" seems to denote a level of victimhood on part of the afflicted system, when you (and my meta) is pointing toward concerted action of the system to milk a system member while preserving (or hoarding) as much resources as possible.

Unfortunately this is one of those questions that cannot be answered simply, and depends a lot on the system or subsystem in question. It also calls into question whether or not we can reliably create a universal model that marks system sickliness and victimhood or victimization, especially across cultures who have vastly different concepts of all of the above.

I mean, suffering and sacrifice by a discrete member in a system hasn't always been seen as negative. Whereas now in most modern cultures, consistently being drained by a system is seen as a bad thing, when in other times and other cultures being drained dry was a mark of a person with a good character.

I think it's a massively complicated question, and it would take a lot of discussion about what could really always be considered sick or vampiric.

Alex was very right in his link to throw in "perceived" copetencies, and I could add that to "perceived" sick systems, as not even every member in a system who sacrifices the same amount will have the same perspective of a system's vampirism, or of their own victimhood.