[embodiment] in which I appear to be nobody's target market

[kaberett]

I have been slowly and suspiciously Learning About Skincare over the past few years. Special face soap the first did indeed seem to work quite well but I was Aggrieved when I realised it contained Microplastics. So I finished that bottle and then (... eventually) got around to asking for recommendations for non-plastic-containing Special Face Soap, and got pointed at the various CeraVe offerings, which have also been working well! And while I was at it I was recommended some non-my-suncream and non-E45 moisturisers.

I've now been using those for long enough to realise how much background sensory input I was getting from uncomfortably dry face skin, and how much better I feel when it's not that sad. I have also discovered that the trichotillomania (directed at my Rubbish Facial Hairs) is hugely reduced by Lots Of Moisturising, which I absolutely would not have predicted but which does make sense and which is very welcome.

BUT ALAS it was not until AFTER I had Bought Some Special Moisturisers that I thought to check their ingredients lists, which! contain! things like "polyacrylamide" and "miscellaneous crosspolymers" including "Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer"! Which I have failed to dig up data on the biodegradability of, but of which I am Suspicious (with some basis although I haven't actually yet dug through the ECHA and UNEP source reports). But!!! apparently the intersection of "I would prefer my various unguents to not contain poorly-biodegradable plastics" with "I'm not actually scared of chemical names in general" and "I'm fine with plastic bottles so long as I can recycle them" and "a minimum of added scent, please" is... not, as far as I can tell, particularly considered one it's commercially advantageous to exploit!

And so I am reduced, probably, to gritting my teeth and spending a lot of time reading ingredients lists while I attempt to get my head around what all the various unguents are even intended to do (current reading: LandysChemist and ejollify), grumbling all the while about exactly how niche my interests apparently are...

Comments

[chiasmata]

Polyacrylamide! Deeeelightful.

[kaberett]

I just!!! want goop!!! to put on my face!!! that makes it soft and ISN'T full of Exciting Texturing Agents, okay.

[lilysea]

I'd be interested in hearing if you find moisturisers and cleansers that work for you.

I need to find fragrance-free ones for sensitive skin, and it's been a struggle finding stuff that I don't react to.

[kaberett]

Cleansers: I am getting on very well with the CeraVe foaming cleanser. I might try their hydrating cleanser when I finish the current bottle, but I'm gong to dither about it.

Moisturiser: still working on sorting this out. My face-skin is not super happy about E45 lotion (I suspect the lanolin; cream is fine on hands but faces are not supposed to have burning sensations). I will update if I manage to get anywhere useful!

[lilysea]

I've been using

CeraVe Hydrating Foaming Oil Cleanser 473 ml

Foaming oil face wash with squalane oil and triglyceride.

my skin isn't 100% happy with it, but it annoys my skin significantly less than anything else I have tried.

I started off with Ceramides Foaming Oil-Free Cleanser at first, but it was too drying

then I switched to Ceramides Hydrating Cleanser for Dry Skin but it was still too drying (altho better than the previous one)

CeraVe Hydrating Foaming Oil Cleanser 473 ml is the best so far

I am very interested in hearing moisturiser recommendations! ^_^

CeraVe Hydrating Foaming Oil Cleanser 473 ml
Ingredients = 2021602 23 - Ingredients: AQUA/WATER, GLYCERIN, PEG-200 HYDROGENATED GLYCERYL PALMATE, COCO-BETAINE, DISODIUM COCOYL GLUTAMATE, PEG-120 METHYL GLUCOSE DIOLEATE, POLYSORBATE 20, PEG-7 GLYCERYL COCOATE, PEG-150 PENTAERYTHRITYL TETRASTEARATE, PPG-5-CETETH-20, PEG-6 CAPRYLIC/CAPRIC GLYCERIDES, SQUALANE, CERAMIDE NP, CERAMIDE AP, CERAMIDE EOP, CARBOMER, TRIETHYL CITRATE, SODIUM CHLORIDE, SODIUM HYDROXIDE, SODIUM COCOYL GLUTAMATE, SODIUM LAUROYL LACTYLATE, SODIUM HYALURONATE, CHOLESTEROL, CITRIC ACID, CAPRYLOYL GLYCINE, HYDROXYACETOPHENONE, CAPRYLYL GLYCOL, CAPRYLIC/ CAPRIC TRIGLYCERIDE, TRISODIUM ETHYLENEDIAMINE DISUCCINATE, PHYTOSPHINGOSINE, XANTHAN GUM, BENZOIC ACID. (Code F.I.L. C273796/1)

[fyreharper]

I’ve not tried the foaming cleanser, but do I get on well with their Hydrating Facial Cleanser

[octahedrite]

Here via network page, have you tried oil cleansing? It's quite moisturizing too. Not sure if it could completely replace moisturizer for you, though.

[kaberett]

Hrrm. I have not, and will have a read! Thank you :)

[madgastronomer]

Unfortuately, Native doesn't ship outside the US. Putting it here for any readers on this side.

[kaberett]

So noted!

[fyreharper]

I did not know they did unscented anything, so thanks!

[rugessnome]

oh 🙃

I have had atopic dermatitis/eczema and so dry skin ever since I was a baby and I have found one (1) product that meets my requirements for sufficiently moisturizing + acceptable texture + acceptably unscented* ... and I never thought about whether it would contain plastics and uh, turns out it does... :/

*there are of course many unscented options but, well, unscented things do not necessarily lack an intrinsic smell...

[kaberett]

oh no no no PLEASE do not feel bad about this -- I'm grumpy about it because I do have lots of options and would like them to be less awful to wade through, but just as I am 100% fine with the various single-use plastics I have for my medical nonsense I will be Very Cross at the suggestion that you didn't ought to use them when they are the Only Thing That Works (or the only affordable thing that works, or whatever) -- this is honestly a really minor part of any of our contributions to ~plastic waste~.

(And I'm still struggling to find anything actually conclusive on biodegradability of a lot of this stuff! so.)

[recessional]

I am also squinting hard at the page linked simply because they do not at any point consistently define "microplastics" across all the research they cite - like they put footnotes to Very!! Alarming!! Research!! except that the research in question DOES give specific definitions it's using, while the overall site and the more general "plastics free" orgs they have . . . don't.

And I'm way too familiar with the BS that certain people pull in these areas where the actual proven "this! is terrible!" stuff is about a very specific concentration/source/etc, but then the big social movements broaden it to include everything that has the same name, so I'm . . . I dunno. I'm uneasy with their blithe general definition of "basically all polymers" when the actual "oh shit this is bad" stuff specifically cites "things made from This Stuff that is also This Big and - " etc.

[kaberett]

This is why I'm wading through the linked ECHA stuff, yeah -- I am actually trying to dig out data on persistence in the environment and so on and so forth but a bunch of the "microplastic" definitions explicitly exclude things that form films regardless (as far as I can tell) of how biodegradable they are, and mostly I'm annoyed it's taking this much work to dig out the information I actually want :| (Not least because my PhD lab actually worked on persistence of environmental pollution! Different specifics -- silver nanoparticles were the one I paid most attention to -- but I ought to be able to WORK THIS OUT, dammit. :| But I'm not twitchy about any/all polymers -- just anything with "acrylate" in the name makes me go HMM.)

[sporky_rat]

This is exactly why I went with branchandroot 's recipe for sulfur butter, I couldn't find a moisturizer that worked for me.

(Or didn't have terrible plastics in it.)

[kaberett]

So noted.

[sporky_rat]

(If you need the link, let me know.)

[sporky_rat]

Actually here, have it now. https://branchandroot.dreamwidth.org/1591334.html

[recessional]

I will put up one small thing and note that if you're not absolutely sure that you don't react to shea butter, that's a potential thing to keep an eye on. (My mom and sister have, after a lot of elimination, figured out that they do react to it. Sooo.)

[kaberett]

Thank! <3

[sporky_rat]

Oh yeah, and picking a different solid there is important if you react.

[rydra_wong]

I can rec The Ordinary for fairly simple formulas which generally don't have added scent and are priced cheaply, so if you want to experiment with a particular thing, you don't have to waste too much money on it:

https://theordinary.com/en-gb

I am benevolently disposed towards them because their niacinamide/zinc is one of the only things EVER that prevents the cystic acne I get otherwise. Currently I mix that with a few drops of pure squalane (from their range or any other range that does it) and I'm good.

On a quick skim, I've seen acryla- prefixes in some of their products, but mostly not.

[kaberett]

Ooh, thank you, I shall poke.

[vass]

Psst: the link for ejollify leads to LandysChemist.

I too have found that I pick less (at my feet and hands in my case) now I moisturise them. I've been using the cheapest unscented brand at the pharmacy (the kind of thing you get in 500g pump packs and have to periodically rinse the pump until it works again.)

I had not gotten on the microplastics bandwagon yet. I have just looked at the five products I use on a frequent basis. One of them is shaving soap from Etsy, and unsurprisingly has nothing you wouldn't expect from handmade soap.

The four are unscented moisturiser (as mentioned), unscented deodorant, and... Old Spice-scented Head and Shoulders 2-in-1.

Oh, and extremely expensive toothpaste I have to buy from the dentist directly, with so much fluoride it has its own MSDS.

The toothpaste has polyethylene-polypropylene glycol, which isn't on the list, but polyethylene is? I do not like my chances of finding a microplastics-safe toothpaste which a) doesn't taste like burning (which most mint toothpastes do for me), AND b) has any fluoride at all, let alone c) has 1.1% w/w fluoride as prescribed by my dentist for my cary risk level.

The others all have dimethicone in it, which is no surprise since that's an anti-foaming agent.

Now I'm reading the LandysChemist page you linked to, and giggling like a twelve-year-old at the euphemistic explanation that urea is "naturally found in the body". I mean, it is, and it's understandable they wouldn't want to dwell on the specifics.

Thank you for the rabbithole.

[kaberett]

Psst: the link for ejollify leads to LandysChemist.

Fix'd <3

I've been using the cheapest unscented brand at the pharmacy

Annoyingly my face Does Not Seem To Get On With E45 lotion (I routinely use E45 cream no my hands). I assume it's something to do with the lanolin? but SHRUG EMOJI

Re microplastics: as I have said in other comments, I am broadly of the opinion that idgaf when it's a case of "medication comes in single-use plastics"! I'm not going to skip out on an awful lot of things that are necessary to my basic functioning because Single Use Plastics! The amount of plastic present in my toothpaste is really not large enough to actually be worth worrying about when it's otherwise a tolerable flavour etc etc etc!

But with things where I don't Have To use this one specific formulation or form-factor, like moisturisers or soaps, I do want to try to work out if there are lower-environmental-impact options. Having said which I found enough places saying "water treatment plants can filter dimethicone out" that I confess I have decided that's Good Enough For Me and am not really bothering to try to avoid it.

Mostly, I think, I'm just annoyed that it's this hard to work out what even. (I have spent some of these evening skimming the various ECHA documents and really not managing to come up with a useful summary of whether the various polyacrylates are something I want to consider Avoid If Possible e.g.)

(HAHAHAHA UREA.)

[recessional]

I have a suspicion it's because they actually don't know and are being as broad as they can with the definition of "microplastics" for one reason or another, where the actual studied dangers are about things that are pretty well measured.