Today's dismay: currants

[kaberett]

From the department of "divided by a common language": earlier today I was Very Upset about the US use of "coffee cake", which is apparently not a cake flavoured with coffee but rather a (style of) cake eaten with coffee.

(The recipe blog intro writes itself, really; things I am already considering include some kind of poppyseed coffee cake and of course rhubarb coffee cake, which is what precipitated this particular discovery.)

This was upsetting enough by itself but Subsequent Digressions lead to the discovery that apparently in North America "currants" with no other specifiers by default means Ribes, probably blackcurrant, and not, you know, the dried grape.

... via going "hey, this EYB recipe specifies 'currants' as an ingredient for teacakes, but I've previously been informed that that means Ribes fruit not dried grapes, surely some mistake?" and getting back, approximately, "what makes you think dried grapes are relevant??? the version of the recipe in the Guardian just says 'currants'??????"

(The linking step was being Extremely Indignant about having it patiently explained to me that "coffee cake" is like "tea cake". Apparently BUT THE FRUIT SHOULD BE SOAKED IN TEA THOUGH is not a robust defence.)

Comments

[kaberett]

Bonus: I'm particularly baffled that blackcurrants are apparently the default NAm Ribes, because in my dialect of German Ribisel -- "little Ribes" -- is the word for redcurrants...

[mme_n_b]

I'm in California, have never seen dried black currants, it's always red.

[wildeabandon]

*screams in Yorkshire* Coffee cakes are nothing like teacakes. Teacakes are bread.

[starlady]

Wait...a teacake is not a cake?

[recessional]

That wasn’t the way I was pointing out that they’re the same; I was referencing the language construction.

[pseudomonas]

Teacakes are bread.

Tell that to Tunnock's.

[starlady]

I don't think we have blackcurrants in the States, I've only ever seen red.

P.S. Why don't you call dried grapes "raisins"? Grapes aren't currants! :-)

[mme_n_b]

We have them, and we have white ones also. You need to shop in an East European store to find them, though. They are generally just advertised as "European".

[madgastronomer]

There is A History there, though I've forgotten a lot of the details. Basically, there was a plant disease that was attacking blackcurrants, and so just when the US might have imported a bunch and made blackcurrant flavored stuff in bulk... they couldn't. Which is why Concord grape took over as The Flavor for things for so long.

And properly, those are "zante currants", a small type of dried grape, not just regular raisins.

[ludy]

In the UK rasins sultanas and currants are three different (and specific) kinds of dried grape. Which sometimes get collectively described as "dried vine fruit" in food labelling

[rugessnome]

Grapes are the original currants!

The Ribes acquired the word that originally belonged to teeny grapes from Corinth.

Also, while I haven't seen fresh blackcurrants for sale, I do have a blackcurrant bush (now two, now I found out they don't like to self-pollinate) in the states.

The problem with the Ribes being previously banned here is they are host to a white pine rust that could potentially devastate the far more important lumber industry.

[recessional]

To be clear, it was not a robust defence because when I pointed it out as an example of “this is a language construction of meaning that arises from common usage”, Alex immediately saw exactly what I meant fast enough to go HOW DARE bc it messed up the (playful) insistence that all of this was just Us Being Weird.

And didn’t manage to come up with the “WELL THE FRUIT SHOULD BE SOAKED—“ until some time later.

[kaberett]

THAT IS BECAUSE I HAD BLUESCREENED AND NEEDED TO REBOOT

[phi]

Wait, when recipes in the Guardian say "currants" they mean dried grapes? Like small dried red grapes (raisins) or large dried green grapes (sultanas)? Is "currants" in British English different from redcurrants or blackcurrants?

[madgastronomer]

Dried "currants" in the US are "zante currants", a dried type of small grape, not regular raisins.

[sporky_rat]

I have never in my life seen a Ribes for sale, but plenty of raisins and the weird little not actually currents but raisins labeled as currents.

Figuring out Welsh cakes was hard.

[kaberett]

... oh NO

[conuly]

Specifically, coffee cake should have crumbs. And possibly walnuts, but not dried fruit, I don't care wtf this recipe author was smoking when she said that.

...poppyseeds are a distinct maybe.

[ewt]

Ah, yes: the small horrible little tiny grape currants (that go in e.g. currant buns), Vs the small horrible sharp fresh fruit (that I don't think I have ever seen dried.)

I wonder if my Near Allotment grapes would make decent currants. The fruit certainly isn't right for table use and the wine attempts have also been very poor (but I do now have several litres of vinegar); I'm told by the allotment Neighbour Who Lies that it's a variety grown for leaves, but a) the leaves aren't that big really b) she lies c) a person can only eat so many dolmades.

[kaberett]

I will happily have all of yours

(I have seen dried Ribes-currants but I think it was in the context of IDK graze boxes or something? BWFO and SousChef both do them...)

[ludy]

My Mum told me that when she was a child during WW2 and the period of extreme rationing immediately afterwards she and her friends were encouraged to pick red and black currants to be dried and used in baking (as well as to make cordials that were recommended nationally as a source of Vitamin C for growing children). And how glad they were when proper (dried grape) currants became available.
So the American usage is effectively a FamineFood

[kaberett]

This is apparently also when Ribena got really popular!

[highlyeccentric]

Meanwhile in Australia: an apple-flavoured cake might be referred to as either a coffee cake OR a tea cake, which means you can also have a coffee-flavoured tea cake if you so desire.

[kaberett]

;_;

[sfred]

Huh, I thought dried currants were dried blackcurrants!

I am boggling at the "coffee cake" things, though.

[kaberett]

Nope! Not over here they're not!

[vass]

I had not paused to wonder before what fruit currants even are, and now that I've paused it seems that I understand less than I do before.

Also, the dried grapes I'm familiar with are called sultanas here. Not to sniff at people who call it different things, just that that's what we call them: the breakfast cereal which in America is called Raisin Bran is in Australia called Sultana Bran.

[kaberett]

FOR BONUS POINTS "raisins" and "sultanas" are actually basically The Same Damn Thing, it's just some people like to draw distinctions based on colours! Whereas currants are, as I say, smaller and chewier and more wrinkly and still in the overarching raisin category (which I understand you to be saying is in fact the "sultana" category in your localisation) and NOT RIBES.

[lnr]

I am from the uk: coffee cake should have coffee in it. Usually found as coffee-and-walnut variety.

I am from Yorkshire. I'm familiar with teacake for a small soft white bread roll, but it's more usually a fruit teacake rather than a plain one, and eaten toasted with butter on as a snack, usually with a cup of tea.

But a tea *loaf* is a type of fruit cake where the fruit is soaked in tea before baking. You also get these in Yorkshire.

Currants in baking terms are like small more dried out raisins. I didn't know they were still a sort of dried grape though, but hadn't really thought about it. A blackcurrant/redcurrant/whitecurrant would be no use at all in a currant bun! (Sultanas are generally golden brown, raisins dark brown, currants smaller and nearly black).

Coffee cake being the cake you have with coffee is still weird to me.

[fyreharper]

Coffee cake being coffee flavored is weird to me! (…also I do not like coffee, and do like US!coffeecake, which I’m sure affects the degree to which I am >:-( rather than :D about the idea :p )

[pseudomonas]

Currants in French are raisins de Corinthe and it's damn near impossible to find them in Belgium for a not-taking-the-piss price. I was bemoaning this last year at mincemeat-making time when a friend shared pictures from their holiday in Zanthe. So I got some actual Zanthe currants for my mincemeat [which to avoid confusing non-UK people, does not contain meat].

[rugessnome]

technically we have mincemeat in the US (though I think one brand or at least type got discontinued some time since 2020) but like ...actually all forms of currants, although the dried raisins de Corinthe grape type are probably most feasible to find, it's not very common, or popular. I don't know if this will change with millennial and onward food explorations, but I get the impression that that kind of dark sweet is out of fashion here.

And making the Complete Ball Book... recipe for (meatless*) mincemeat (which is most of what I personally have eaten for mincemeat) is actually why I first ever bought the dried grape currants... (and sherry and brandy. possibly even the golden raisins...)

*historically it did contain meat. this is not reasonable to preserve in a water bath as that recipe is, so it isn't included, and in any case if meatless mincemeat is out of fashion, meat-ed mincemeat is even moreso.

[rugessnome]

I'm wondering if the US "coffee cake" might be a calque of Kaffeekuchen, but I don't know the German culinary history there and whether some of the presence of similar cakes under "Kaffeekuchen" is back-importation of the USian variety...

I learned about your side of the pond's coffee-flavored coffee cake about a decade ago thanks to an Irish cookbook by someone with I think an American spouse.

And, what "currants" means here in the States is... difficult to pin down; since currant (and gooseberry! and particularly jostaberry! we don't do Ribes a lot) products are altogether rather scarce here, I am inclined to assume that naked "currant", particularly in baking, is in fact the (OG (see other comment)) dried grape, but currant jam/jelly(in the US, again, this is a jam like spread made of set juice), for instance, is ...probably meant to be redcurrant jam, even though blackcurrant jam does exist here. I have found freeze dried black currants for sale online here, and contemplating buying them due to a discontinued black currant cereal, but haven't done so yet.

However! One of my Kaffeekuchen search results pointed out that "streusel" would, of course, have a German pronunciation originally, and I am similarly a little verklempt about that, so. (I. did the same years ago about Euler. what can I say?)

[kaberett]

My cursory skim of the internet did indeed indicate that that was the etymology!

FWIW jostaberries are also basically unheard of here -- they don't transport particularly well and you basically only seem to find out about them (even if you're a family that's been growing Ribes more generally for generations!) if you... get an alloment? They appear to be specifically part of the allotment subculture.

And "jelly" is actually a term we use to refer to jams-but-juice-only as well as to the gelatine thing!

............... yeah okay streusel is one of the ones where I'm sufficiently German-first-language that I just don't have any idea where to even start working out what the anglo pronunciation would be.

digression

[madgastronomer]

Further fun with blackcurrants: they can be used as a textile dye to get blue. I do not have a recipe for this, alas, and wouldn't be able to get enough of them to try it if I did, but I have run across the reference in multiple places. I also don't know how color- or lightfast it is. Basically I know nothing except that it can be done, and that there's an adorable cartoon about the making of linen in Czech Republic that uses it. You can find it here, and I get very excited about it because it's a very accurate representation of the process, while also being adorable woodland creatures.

Re: digression

[kaberett]

Ooh, thank you for rec!

[lokifan]

:spluttering indignation: