kaberett: Trans symbol with Swiss Army knife tools at other positions around the central circle. (Default)
kaberett ([personal profile] kaberett) wrote2025-06-06 11:53 pm
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[pain] today's articulation

A significant part of the problem is that we only start saying "all pain is in the brain" (or "the tissue isn't the issue" or whatever) to people with complex or chronic pain.

And there's a good reason for that! It's the same reason that I need to have a much more detailed idea of the fine detail of what an atom is and how it behaves than the vast majority of the population, for whom the Bohr model is perfectly adequate!

... and we need to explain that, we need to explain why we don't tell people with simple acute pain that All Pain Is In The Brain -- it's not because it's any less true for them, it's just that for most people most of the time they don't need to worry about that level of detail. But if you don't explain that, it sure do sound a lot like "your pain isn't real (unlike those people over there)".

Lies-to-children. That. That thing. That's a thing I need to explain.

batrachian: (Lurking Frog)

[personal profile] batrachian 2025-06-07 03:25 am (UTC)(link)
I have seen it phrased in programmer-type spaces as "leaky abstractions"; put the important pieces in a way you can hold onto them, and elide the "unimportant". the map is not the territory... but that means making decisions about what to include (and what not).

And then you (generic) run into a weird edge case, mutter "it shouldn't be doing that", and find out that something in that black-box API works as expected... for "normal" input.

... the point of this got away from me.
ysabetwordsmith: Cartoon of me in Wordsmith persona (Default)

Thoughts

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2025-06-07 04:15 am (UTC)(link)
All pain is in the brain, but not all pain is only in the brain.

Some pain is entirely in the brain. So the only way to fix it is in the brain, or in the mind, which is hard to do because people know less about those than about other body parts. Often it doesn't get fixed.

Some pain is in the brain, but also is another part of the body that is damaged somehow. In this case, it is necessary to fix the distal damage as best it can be. That usually solves the problem. But sometimes the brain keeps saying "Leg being chewed off!" when that was over 6 months ago. 0_o

I think the biggest problem is that, unlike other things such as size of a burn or number of fractures, scientists have not yet figured out how to measure pain with a device. And they're all about devices, so anything that can't be measured to them that way is not quite real. And they are that way about pretty much everything that can't be pinned down, until it can be measured. Hell, people used to think that asthma was a mental illness!

With complex pain, you have the added problem that people in general, and medics in particular, gravitate to simple solutions. A problem with 4 different causes is unlikely to get solved.

With chronic pain, you have the added problem that people get tired of hearing the same thing over and over. That is true of pretty much all chronic problems. They've heard it, they don't want to hear it again, they're sick of accommodating it. This is why so many disabled people pull away from society: it is less miserable to be alone than to put up with other people complaining all the time about things you can't change.

I have actually heard people use "all pain is in the brain" in other contexts. It can be a useful tool, if you are deft at headskills, and you don't have painkillers for any kind of problem. Some people learn to turn it off. This has pros and cons. Which leads to another cluster of uses: soldiers, dancers, some athletes, learn that pain is in the brain and turn it off. That can be extremely useful in a crisis, but as a habit will destroy your body. Working properly, pain is a message that means "stop and fix this." If you don't, bad things happen.
konsectatrix: (Default)

[personal profile] konsectatrix 2025-06-07 11:18 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, there should be some form of disclaimer or people (understandably!) think the lie is the truth and it's all there is and/or it's intended in malice, dismissive, etc, as you mentioned--and those are definitely drawbacks!

It's still understandable why the shorthand is an important tool to have, absolutely, accessible layman's explanations are as important as they are difficult to come up with, but yeah (I think some of this issue comes along with metaphorical language fail, or in confusing maps with territories in general. Nnh communication, argh).

*Considers* It can also get very frustrating to have to cut off the person giving you the Bohr model explanation to advise that you're down with the valance shell model, it's fine, can we skip ahead to what we think my specific sample particle is really doing? >>;
sporky_rat: Joker running from bad things, Mass Effect 2 (disability)

[personal profile] sporky_rat 2025-06-07 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)

having to discuss pain and where and how it works for chronic conditions is one of those discussions where I do the thing, I come home, and I really really feel like humans are very bad at words and communication.

strength to your will to do the thing, kab.