So here is the thing I'm struggling with about antifa at the moment

[kaberett]

It is all very well to say "if you are not with the [explicitly violent] antifascists, you're with the fascists" but what these explanations do not seem to include is actual detailed discussion of how or why I can operate on the assumption that these people won't decide that I'm the next target. "Because you're not a fascist!" Okay, right, no, try again. Try again. I have been told, by people still substantively respected and liked in my geographically local community, that being visibly autistic in public is oppressive. I want to know what the fuck system of rules you're working with that means I won't be deemed unacceptable and I won't be deemed an appropriate target.

"Try not being a fascist!"

Yeah, thanks, see above about "me being visibly disabled in public is oppressive". See every interaction I've ever had where my disabilities are an inconvenience to The Cause.

Try again.

I'm really not comfortable with the extent to which people seem to want to shout me down on this one, using that well-known abusive tactic of telling me that if I don't unquestioningly support them in spite of grave reservations rooted in, like, bare minimum historical literacy plus personal experience, I am all that is Bad and Evil.

I am struggling to articulate this any better because of the sheer visceral horror I'm experiencing at a lot of the rhetoric that's happening. But, like, if you want to engage with me on this -- and I am, very definitely, open to being talked to -- please consider starting from a point of "I see your concerns and they're valid, here's why I'm convinced", not "you're a bad person for having doubts".

If, however, you want to ask me how Very Dare I tone-police you on this, I request that you sit this one out.

Comments

[ironed_orchid]

It's really interesting to me how Antifa who were always a small and active part of anti-racist protests has suddenly come to mean everyone, everywhere, who opposes fascism, that than those who are prepared to get into physical altercations with their opponents.

I'm antifascist, but I wouldn't go so far as to call myself Antifa because I don't get up at the front of protests, preferring to be a nice white lady in the middle, on the occasions when work and health allow me to attend protests in the first place. But what I've seen over the years is there's a big difference between whose who stand up to violence from the right or fro the police, and those who are in it for the violence. I had major problems with a local Trot group in the 90s because they liked to come to all the protests, even those that were meant to be peaceful, and find someone to punch, often a public servant who worked for department whose actions were being protested against. It's probable that my scorn at trots in general is due to this particular local group. I have no doubt that some of these people are now self-described Antifa.

As some said on twitter, "Antifa" is the new "SJW" - a catchphrase for the right to use, but you see to be more concerned with how it's been taken up by a rallying cry by those on the left who have a "you're either for us or against us" and I do think this is a becoming an issue that needs to be addressed. Because as one contingent of the many who are all all resisting fascism and racism in various ways, I think Antifa tactics are useful. But they are not the only tactics, and not the only way, and I don't want those voices to drown out others.

[kaberett]

Yeah, part of what I'm scared about is the subsuming of all the facets of antifascist work into one particular one which you're apparently not allowed to criticise, and another big part is the increasingly strong impression I have that a lot of people are defining violence as a moral imperative because... they want to go on a righteous crusade. (Yes I am using the term "crusade" advisedly, etc etc etc.)

[recessional]

I have no doubt that some of these people are now self-described Antifa.

I think in fact that the issue is that these people are becoming the vocal, tone-setting group in many corners. I am watching this happen, in various places, and also watching the definition of "fascist" slide from people like Spencer who have literally advocated genocide to Basically Anyone Whose Politics Aren't The Way The Person Yelling Thinks They Should Be.

And a lot, a very loud and emphatic lot, of "you are either totally fine with this or you are actually a fascist (or you're stupid or you're a liar or you're a coward)."

And what is NOT happening is any actual concerted response or pushback against this.

And that's terrifying.