I'm having trouble following this, but I think perhaps 'unsafe' is not a basic emotion. You pointed to fear there, there's probably also... nervousness and a few others? I'm just going to blather thoughts at you, concerning bits of this, but as it's not so much an argument as a list of things thought vaugely in the order they were thought, they may cover ground you'd already covered by the time you got to the end!
"Now the emotion in and of itself is not necessarily distressing, unless we also hold distress intolerant beliefs which tell us the emotion is bad in some way and must be stopped." ??? I mean yes okay "don't be sad in front of other people they'll hit you" is clearly compounding distress, but again I say, being unsafe is... just distressing? what am I missing?
I think what that's trying to say is not that being afraid ought to be a happy feeling but that it doesn't need to be compounded by HO SHIT I AM AFRAID NOT AGAIN WHY SO AFRAID AM I AFRAID OF EVERYTHING AAAARGH. Your physical pain analogy is probably helpful: there are some kinds of physical pain that indicate you need to make a rapid status change. Likewise some kinds of fear. Other kinds of physical pain can be tolerated if you have reason but you wouldn't do it for kicks, or necessarily for *other people's reasons*. Then there's negligible pain, and good-kinds-of-pain (some people's experience of exercise? SI? BDSM?).
And, hmm. You're right that certain distress/panic/pain signals are important learned responses. BUT. There is prooobably a way of recognising and responding to fear with... if not no distress, less? I think, from personal experience and watching others (including you?) that sometimes we *put up with* the shit that's most distressing because it's... so big it's hard to assess if it's reasonable?
... okay but I already do the stuff of going "what is this feeling of distress trying to tell me" and accepting that it's probably got a point; I just don't trust people enough to share it with them (and finding the line between "reassurance-seeking" and "reasonable requests for support/listening" is interesting).
You do share a fair bit of that on t'internets, though. I'm thinking there's a secondary fear about what happens when you admit vulnerability? Especially in a space you don't explicitly control (whereas this is *your* internet space). TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE you know I grok that. A not insignificant number of people will be shitheads about it! But shitheads is shitheads, and non-shitheads would benefit from the honestly. Alas I do not know how to solve this aside from dumping the shitheads asap, but as we ahve seen, that is very difficult to realise one ought to be doing.
I'm struggling to see the material difference between behaviours described as "distress avoidance" and "distress improving" (the latter being described as "soothing" or "activating").
Yes I have trouble with that too, and diff shrinks take diff calls on it. I think it also depends what the *problem* is. Like, what is good distress improving for, say, fear of abandonment is often excellent avoidance for work anxiety!
no subject
"Now the emotion in and of itself is not necessarily distressing, unless we also hold distress intolerant beliefs which tell us the emotion
is bad in some way and must be stopped." ??? I mean yes okay "don't be sad in front of other people they'll hit you" is clearly compounding distress, but again I say, being unsafe is... just distressing? what am I missing?
I think what that's trying to say is not that being afraid ought to be a happy feeling but that it doesn't need to be compounded by HO SHIT I AM AFRAID NOT AGAIN WHY SO AFRAID AM I AFRAID OF EVERYTHING AAAARGH. Your physical pain analogy is probably helpful: there are some kinds of physical pain that indicate you need to make a rapid status change. Likewise some kinds of fear. Other kinds of physical pain can be tolerated if you have reason but you wouldn't do it for kicks, or necessarily for *other people's reasons*. Then there's negligible pain, and good-kinds-of-pain (some people's experience of exercise? SI? BDSM?).
And, hmm. You're right that certain distress/panic/pain signals are important learned responses. BUT. There is prooobably a way of recognising and responding to fear with... if not no distress, less? I think, from personal experience and watching others (including you?) that sometimes we *put up with* the shit that's most distressing because it's... so big it's hard to assess if it's reasonable?
... okay but I already do the stuff of going "what is this feeling of distress trying to tell me" and accepting that it's probably got a point; I just don't trust people enough to share it with them (and finding the line between "reassurance-seeking" and "reasonable requests for support/listening" is interesting).
You do share a fair bit of that on t'internets, though. I'm thinking there's a secondary fear about what happens when you admit vulnerability? Especially in a space you don't explicitly control (whereas this is *your* internet space). TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE you know I grok that. A not insignificant number of people will be shitheads about it! But shitheads is shitheads, and non-shitheads would benefit from the honestly. Alas I do not know how to solve this aside from dumping the shitheads asap, but as we ahve seen, that is very difficult to realise one ought to be doing.
I'm struggling to see the material difference between behaviours described as "distress avoidance" and "distress improving" (the latter being described as "soothing" or "activating").
Yes I have trouble with that too, and diff shrinks take diff calls on it. I think it also depends what the *problem* is. Like, what is good distress improving for, say, fear of abandonment is often excellent avoidance for work anxiety!